Chili

Humanity is based on love and that has an opposite in hate in absense of love. Man as opposed to human is Love without opposite in hate and so by their actions can they be identified.

Duvduv

I am not so sure I would go as far as you. They could have just as easily made their case without identifying Haman as the advisor of Pharoah instead of the Persian king, or Mary as the daughter of Amram, or without ignoring the rest of the nativity story of Jesus.
And of course they had no way of knowing whether or not their book would be accepted with the claim that it was revealed progressively to Mohammed by Gabriel.

Chili

Gabriel does not talk to humans as fist cause angel, and never will (or God would be a virgin too).

sotto voce

They did make their 'case' without that. These are tiny aberrations that one can make far too much of. They may even have been deliberate, to give opportunity to 'correct' simple punters.

That was of no great importance to them. They left out enormous quantities of biblical commentary on parts that were either neutral or didn't suit them. It's a syndrome that goes with the cultic territory. The typical Catholic knows the Bible verses that 'suit' Catholic dogma, but does not know how to begin explaining anything else.

Nobody in his right mind would believe that tale. Things like this, like trinitarianism, are collective bluffs, mega-lies that people agree to tell themselves, to give them a cosy feeling while they carry on with their compromised lives.

Notsri

Ibn Hisham's work is largely based on that of an earlier Muslim biographer, namely, Ibn Ishaq (8th c. CE).

Pamela Spencer

Islam, canonically, ascribes a far greater functionality for the Angel Gabriel than is formally recognized by Christianity proper. In Islam, Gabriel is credited as serving as the angelic messenger intermediary for Revelation transmission. Indirectly, the androgynous being was responsible for presenting a crystallized portrayal of Islaam via the Hadith of Gabriel.

Gabriel is also considered an active member of "Malaai'ikatu-l-Muqarraboon", or the "Council of Archangels", and was authorized by God to take part in the formative creation process. According to traditions, God instructed Gabriel to "collect white, red, black and brown mud, as also hard and soft earth". In Paradise, God fashioned man from an admixture of "sounding clay" and "water".

It would require a certain element of presupposition and circular reasoning logic to regard the Bible's characterization of Gabriel as the be-all and the end-all narrative. It would also strike me as borderline-ridiculous to imagine angels as biographical entities that have been fully mapped out for the purpose of analytical research (i.e., via Angelology). From the perspective of Scripture, angels do have esoteric roles, in addition to their supposedly "observed" and "recorded(?)" exoteric designations ---You would be hard-pressed to find any scholar that can thoroughly and meaningfully elucidate the role of Metatron, in laymen's terms.

Pamela Spencer

The following book should be on the top of your reading list with respect to investigating details regarding the historical Muhammad. It is written by academic and scholar, Mikhah Ben David.

The Quest for the Historical Muhammad: How the "Third Quest" Era of Historical Jesus Research Can Help Us Understand Muhammad's Islam (or via: amazon.co.uk) (2011) by Mikhah Ben David

"A NEW MASSIVE study on the Eras of the Quest for the Historical Jesus and how we can apply the Third Quest (Post-Quest) Era methodologies to the Quest for the Historical Muhammad. This study additionally surveys the differences between Traditionalist and Revisionist (Historical-Critical) scholarship in Islamic Studies, and the various approaches of scholars in these schools of thought"

Chili

I understand but an angel is a 'messenger' and Gabriel in particular is a 'first cause' messenger and not a mediator, and if they do not know their angels they look very stupid from day one.

Angels cannot be greater than it's source and if we are God as saint in heaven who just do you think they are trying to fool? Buy a gun instead?

They do not have a clue, what life is all about!

And don't bother showing me a link but if you consider that to obtain the mind of Christ and be Lord God and God just like he became is out mandate here on earth, show me then where their saints are?

Chili

Islam is a pie-in-the-sky religion with no Genesis to come full circle in so there is no final destiny for them. Totally absurd and lower than even the most primitive mythologies who will always have a Genesis in evidence of their God, even if he is still very primitive for them.

Hence they need to die before good things will happen to them and then are promised 70 virgins (and must cover they wife 's face to shut them up). Totally absurd no matter how successful they are in their own religious determination. And do you not understand that their is no marriage in heaven and hardons are not welcome?

And do you not see that Eden is the place before the woman was taken from man and so all desire (tanha) is gone? And is that so hard to follow?

Pamela Spencer

You really think that we know everything there is to know about angels? (i.e. In order to comprehend and internalize the concept of angels we have to be book smart?) If so, please explain to me in clear and concrete terms, the ontological difference between the following entities: Enoch, Metatron, Melchizedek and Khidr. From the perspective of Scripture, the angels are closer in celestial substance (i.e Nur) to God than they are to man (i.e a clay admixture).

Your last paragraph is only comprehensible to Catholics (and to a lesser extent, Shias and Sikhs), due to their relative veneration of saints.

And no, Gabriel serving as a messenger of Revelation transmission will not automatically render God a virgin--that would be a nonsensical example of wonky application of logic.