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07-11-2006, 04:36 AM | #21 | ||||
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Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell directly harm people by inciting their followers to hate people. Actively doing harm is a bad thing. Writing a history book is not. Quote:
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And is that helping christianity? Maybe but I know if I presented a conservative christian with your posts on christianity being bad and needing to be wiped out and then with Pagels' book...Your post would get a comment and then ignored as they launched into a hateful tirade against Pagels and liberal christians. |
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07-11-2006, 06:17 AM | #22 | ||||
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07-11-2006, 07:11 AM | #23 | |
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I agree with Malachi. At times, Elaine Pagels seems to allow her faith to cloud her objectivity. Unfortunately, I don't have "Adam, Eve & the Serpent" in front of me, but I can remember getting very annoyed with the first chapter of it, where Pagels seems to imply that Josephus says alot more about 'Jesus' than he actually does (we're not talking about the disputed TF passage here either). From memory, Pagels clearly tried to imply that, for instance, 'Jesus' was behind the Passover riot(s) (i.e. the catalyst for them) referred to by Josephus, even though Josephus himself makes absolutely no mention of JC in this context, or indeed any other. Like I say, I don't have the text in front of me, but anyone who does, read back through the first few pages of Chapter one & you'll see what I mean. (Or possibly, that I'm completely paranoid.. ) Pagels actually seemed to do this 2 or 3 times in this chapter I felt (i.e. make misleading statements about what Josephus says and what he doesn't, to lend weight to her apparently taken-as-read faith in an historical Jesus). It's obviously convenient to her Christian perspective to do this, but it's also very misleading I feel, and, from a secular p.o.v., also rather annoying. |
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07-11-2006, 07:26 AM | #24 | |
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I'm an atheist - as you appear to be. And Elaine Pagels is one of my favorite authors. I'm all for anyone who is courageous enough to stick a bumblebee in the baseball cap of the fundamentalists. |
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07-11-2006, 07:35 AM | #25 | |
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Once people begin to think for themselves, who knows where it may lead? Perhaps Pagels, like Robert Price, will evolve in her beliefs also. |
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07-11-2006, 07:43 AM | #26 | |||
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If you want to tell us what she says and why that "seems to imply" what you think, we might have a worth-while discussion. Quote:
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07-11-2006, 07:55 AM | #27 | |
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07-11-2006, 09:15 AM | #28 | |
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Okay, the following is lifted from “Adam, Eve & the Serpent” using Amazon Search Inside (so apologies for any typos).
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I think it annoyed me because it suggested a connection between Christian accounts (not sure precisely which accounts though?) of Jesus' supposedly preaching to Passover crowds, and Josephus descriptions of the riot. (I think it was the expression "before just such a crowd", which could be interpreted as meaning before a crowd such as that described at the start of the passage, i.e. one responding to Jesus' "passionate and powerful presence", which to me implied a connection ). I admit that does seem just the teeensiest bit flimsy now though. I guess I was allowing my non-faith to cloud my objectivity? ... |
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07-11-2006, 09:36 AM | #29 |
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Wasn't there an injunction judge not lest ye be judged? Pagels has had huge personal issues that she discusses in beyond belief.
I've just got Campbell Heroes and he emphasises the role of myth in making us human. If we could call on Zeus, Thor, Jesus and Luke Skywalker equally to help us through the day would that not be a good thing? |
07-11-2006, 09:51 AM | #30 | |
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But can we deduce from that she is not "objective" as a researcher ? Well, I can tell you, I am sixty and have read a lot of history, but still have not read a book that would not have in it at least some subjective view of events, or speculation to fill the holes. She apparently believes the accounts of the Jerusalem events are historical. I do not. Does that mean I should not trust her on matters where she shows independent mind ? JS |
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