Freethought & Rationalism Archive

rexrex4 · 05-09-2005, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Where does it say that they are "anti christian jews"?

Yuri.

If you go to the web page given and click on http://www.tirzah.freeserve.co.uk/mathew.html and then Was Jesus the Messiah? there is nothing christian about their views.

Yuri Kuchinsky · 05-09-2005, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Matthew stands wholly as a whole gospel, written by one man

Can you prove it?

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky · 05-09-2005, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexrex4

If you go to the web page given and click on http://www.tirzah.freeserve.co.uk/mathew.html and then Was Jesus the Messiah? there is nothing christian about their views.

I see no evidence that they are "anti christian".

Perhaps they are secular scholars.

Yuri.

Chris Weimer · 05-09-2005, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri Kuchinsky

Can you prove it?

Yuri.

Depends on "proof". In Biblical Criticism, Yuri, it's never proof. I already gave my reasons it stands as a unified gospel, and you have yet to give criticism of it.

Chris

Toto · 05-09-2005, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuri Kuchinsky

Quote:

Originally Posted by rexrex4

Hi Yuri,

I went to this link you gave above, then on a link you give there to an introduction of the hebrew Mathew.I found there you gave this link

http://www.tirzah.freeserve.co.uk/mathew.html

and found there that the jews you refered to as messianic jews are anti christian jews instead. What is this?

Where does it say that they are "anti christian jews"?

Yuri.

It says here

Quote:

This site is produced by two people who were, until four years ago, fundamentalist Christians of many years standing. We began to test the truth of the Bible with as open a mind as we could and found that we had been misled in the past.

and here

Quote:

each must search for God in the place, circumstances, and with the light, God Himself gives. He is to be found in His creation; which speaks more reliably than written words that have been contaminated and altered by men to suit themselves. Although, even creation is being spoilt by men. The holy writings of all the great religions contain truth, but we have found more of it in the Hebrew Bible than elsewhere, and even though it, too, is flawed, it is the best manual for living in this world that we have found.

Yuri Kuchinsky · 05-11-2005, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

It says here

and here

Thanks, Toto,

This settles it.

Best,

Yuri.

Yuri Kuchinsky · 05-11-2005, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

I already gave my reasons it stands as a unified gospel
Chris

What are your reasons?

Yuri.

Chris Weimer · 05-11-2005, 11:39 AM

1. The Moses theme running through the entire gospel
2. The set of five large sermons
3. The three renaming of those to teach to (Jews only, then Samaritans were added, finally all nations)
4. The many polemics against the Jews, including their final destruction

Actually, 2-4 are merely subsets of 1, which is very broad and the best indication of a unified author. I have no doubt that he largely uses Jewish material, but the gospel was definitely Gentilic.

Yuri Kuchinsky · 05-12-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

1. The Moses theme running through the entire gospel
2. The set of five large sermons
3. The three renaming of those to teach to (Jews only, then Samaritans were added, finally all nations)
4. The many polemics against the Jews, including their final destruction

Actually, 2-4 are merely subsets of 1, which is very broad and the best indication of a unified author. I have no doubt that he largely uses Jewish material, but the gospel was definitely Gentilic.

None of this proves what you want it to prove. Moreover, and rather ironically, your #3,

"3. The three renaming of those to teach to (Jews only, then Samaritans were added, finally all nations)"

tends to demonstrate quite the opposite!

Yuri.

Chris Weimer · 05-12-2005, 12:57 PM

To Yuri:
For #3 - Mt. 10:5-6 - Jews only; Mt. 15:24-28 - Samaritan accepted on faith; Mt. 28:19 - For all nations;

The parallel here is that Jesus was a Jew but then after be betrayed by the Jews, he takes his message to all the nations leading them to the promised Kingdom of God, just like Moses who was an Egyptian who then became enemies with the Egyptians and led his people to the Promised Land of Canaan.

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05-11-2005, 11:39 AM	#18
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	1. The Moses theme running through the entire gospel 2. The set of five large sermons 3. The three renaming of those to teach to (Jews only, then Samaritans were added, finally all nations) 4. The many polemics against the Jews, including their final destruction Actually, 2-4 are merely subsets of 1, which is very broad and the best indication of a unified author. I have no doubt that he largely uses Jewish material, but the gospel was definitely Gentilic.

05-12-2005, 12:57 PM	#20
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	To Yuri: For #3 - Mt. 10:5-6 - Jews only; Mt. 15:24-28 - Samaritan accepted on faith; Mt. 28:19 - For all nations; The parallel here is that Jesus was a Jew but then after be betrayed by the Jews, he takes his message to all the nations leading them to the promised Kingdom of God, just like Moses who was an Egyptian who then became enemies with the Egyptians and led his people to the Promised Land of Canaan.

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