Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Prophet76 · 10-20-2007, 11:23 AM

I could not think of a proper title for this thread, so I titled it as best I could.

I hear alot of people question many things that happen in life, alot of them label them bad, or evil, or how could such a thing exist if god does? I would like to shed my view on these things, then allow you to think on it, and respond in kind.

My thought on this is there is no victims, no coincidence, no evil, no good, there just is, and is not.

Allow me to clarify.

As in all things in life, you have a choice. We will start here, I think many of you, if you explore your feelings, know you have a choice in everything you do.

If we have the choice, then in all moments, we choose who we are, and who we desire to be, based on the moment.

We may not always understand our choices, and you may not always understand who you are choosing to be. Alot of us dont even know who we desire to be. A reason for this, is we are constantly changing.

Today I may desire to be this poster, attempting to share my views with all of you on these boards, tommorow I may not even give these boards a second thought.

In the example of cancer, or earthquakes, murder and many other things people label as "bad" or "evil" ask yourself, "who are you choosing to be in relationship to this moment?"

A story: My mother has cancer. I can honestly say I have never been closer to her since hearing this news. When she does pass away, I will remember her always. Before, we had a very poor relationship, and I wont even think twice when my father passes away. I will also remember all the great times my mother and I had, and the "bad" times will fade away.

When this "moment" happens, I choose who I want to be in relationship to it. And who I am.

The beauty of free will, and choice, is there is an infinite amount of possibility. One person can choose any number of ways, and another may take an entirely different path. Rather than pass judgement on a moment that effects you, ask yourself, who am I? Who do I choose to be? Some choose grief, other joy. Is one wrong, and the other right?

Sometimes, we dont see the answer until later in life. An example would be christopher reeve. Superman! Yet this man became paralyzed from the neck down. Tragedy? or triumph? superman impacted more people on a personal level with his strength of character, his will to live and never give up, and his belief in fellow man as someone paralyzed more than he ever did on a movie.

Tragedy? to some. Triumph? to some. The concept here, is each person got to choose who they were in realtion to that event, and who they wanted to be after it.

Philosophers are more about the question than the answer, and I think life is like this as well. Its not the answers to life that define us, its the questions.

If god were to come down, and cure cancer, who would be able to experience grief? triumph? those strong memories?

yes, many of you say "well, i dont want those experiences, who would?"

And if someone did? would that not be taking away your free will, your right to choose? God does not care, not because hes evil or mean, but because he is assured of the outcome. If your children play in the park, do you care if they play tag or hide and seek?

No, you have no preference in the matter. Thats because you have placed them in a place that you feel is safe, and you allow them to do as they will. Can you always protect your children? no, but your right there, letting them know everything is ok when they are hurt, and helping them to go back and play.

God does not care what you do, because to god, everything you do is perfect. If we assume god exists, and we are all a part of god
(god is everything)
Then how could we be hurt? You cant hurt god, nor can you upset him. You too cannot be hurt. Theres the illusion of being hurt, but if your body were to disintegrate on the spot, the "you" that exists would go on, unhurt. That is because you are eternal, like god, because you are god. If in the moment you die you realize this, why in all the heavens would you want to return to being human? And, watching your relatives experience your death, why would you want to interfere? Given you understood the plan, that all things are perfect, and there is no "wrong" choice.

Sorry, I kinda ranted there. This just rolled off my mind, discuss.

thoughtpaperjesus · 10-20-2007, 12:32 PM

ucuvucybubnibvbni no

Gawen · 10-20-2007, 01:35 PM

Moving to MF&P

Prophet76 · 10-20-2007, 08:03 PM

thank you, sorry it was in the wrong area, i didnt know this place existed. =)

10-20-2007, 11:23 AM	#1
Prophet76 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Washington State Posts: 770	A debate on morality, god, good, evil, and more. I could not think of a proper title for this thread, so I titled it as best I could. I hear alot of people question many things that happen in life, alot of them label them bad, or evil, or how could such a thing exist if god does? I would like to shed my view on these things, then allow you to think on it, and respond in kind. My thought on this is there is no victims, no coincidence, no evil, no good, there just is, and is not. Allow me to clarify. As in all things in life, you have a choice. We will start here, I think many of you, if you explore your feelings, know you have a choice in everything you do. If we have the choice, then in all moments, we choose who we are, and who we desire to be, based on the moment. We may not always understand our choices, and you may not always understand who you are choosing to be. Alot of us dont even know who we desire to be. A reason for this, is we are constantly changing. Today I may desire to be this poster, attempting to share my views with all of you on these boards, tommorow I may not even give these boards a second thought. In the example of cancer, or earthquakes, murder and many other things people label as "bad" or "evil" ask yourself, "who are you choosing to be in relationship to this moment?" A story: My mother has cancer. I can honestly say I have never been closer to her since hearing this news. When she does pass away, I will remember her always. Before, we had a very poor relationship, and I wont even think twice when my father passes away. I will also remember all the great times my mother and I had, and the "bad" times will fade away. When this "moment" happens, I choose who I want to be in relationship to it. And who I am. The beauty of free will, and choice, is there is an infinite amount of possibility. One person can choose any number of ways, and another may take an entirely different path. Rather than pass judgement on a moment that effects you, ask yourself, who am I? Who do I choose to be? Some choose grief, other joy. Is one wrong, and the other right? Sometimes, we dont see the answer until later in life. An example would be christopher reeve. Superman! Yet this man became paralyzed from the neck down. Tragedy? or triumph? superman impacted more people on a personal level with his strength of character, his will to live and never give up, and his belief in fellow man as someone paralyzed more than he ever did on a movie. Tragedy? to some. Triumph? to some. The concept here, is each person got to choose who they were in realtion to that event, and who they wanted to be after it. Philosophers are more about the question than the answer, and I think life is like this as well. Its not the answers to life that define us, its the questions. If god were to come down, and cure cancer, who would be able to experience grief? triumph? those strong memories? yes, many of you say "well, i dont want those experiences, who would?" And if someone did? would that not be taking away your free will, your right to choose? God does not care, not because hes evil or mean, but because he is assured of the outcome. If your children play in the park, do you care if they play tag or hide and seek? No, you have no preference in the matter. Thats because you have placed them in a place that you feel is safe, and you allow them to do as they will. Can you always protect your children? no, but your right there, letting them know everything is ok when they are hurt, and helping them to go back and play. God does not care what you do, because to god, everything you do is perfect. If we assume god exists, and we are all a part of god (god is everything) Then how could we be hurt? You cant hurt god, nor can you upset him. You too cannot be hurt. Theres the illusion of being hurt, but if your body were to disintegrate on the spot, the "you" that exists would go on, unhurt. That is because you are eternal, like god, because you are god. If in the moment you die you realize this, why in all the heavens would you want to return to being human? And, watching your relatives experience your death, why would you want to interfere? Given you understood the plan, that all things are perfect, and there is no "wrong" choice. Sorry, I kinda ranted there. This just rolled off my mind, discuss.

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10-20-2007, 12:32 PM	#2
thoughtpaperjesus Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 113	ucuvucybubnibvbni no

10-20-2007, 01:35 PM	#3
Gawen Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart Posts: 10,326	Moving to MF&P

10-20-2007, 08:03 PM	#4
Prophet76 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Washington State Posts: 770	thank you, sorry it was in the wrong area, i didnt know this place existed. =)

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