vid

Regarding Aramaic primacy: is there any word in aramaic for "hell"? One that could be translated to Gehenna, or Hades, used in NT...

spin

A quick check reveals mostly gehenna and the rest sheol -- working from the Syriac of the Peshitta.


spin

judge

Gehenna is an Aramaic word. It occurs for example in an Aramaic targum of Isaiah 66 which reads " . . . will not die and their fire shall not be quenched, and the wicked shall be judged in Gehenna. . . ."

It occurs here in the peshitta of Luke 12:5

Sheol, also Aramaic (..and Hebrew ) occurs in the peshitta of Luke 16:23

vid

Thanks, I didn't realize Gehenna is aramic. How did they use it in greek, just letter-for-letter translation?

Also, does this mean Jews had concept of hell (similar to hell as we know it now, Hades) of their own, even before helenization in last BCE centuries? Or was it just "you will go into that stinking southern valley and burn there inside junk"?

judge

GEHENNA - ga-hen'-a (geenna (see Grimm-Thayer, under the word)): Gehenna is a transliteration from the Aramaic form of the Hebrew ge-hinnom, "valley of Hinnom."

From net.bible-gehenna

You will find arguments for the jews having and not having a concept similar to hades prior to Helenisation.
Which true I don't know.
Luke uses sheol in a way similar to the greek hades. Luke (or perhaps the gospels in general )uses Gehenna in a different sense.
In the gospels Gehenna seems to refer to the Valley outside Jerusalem but has also taken on eschatological signifigance IMHO.

spin

The word "gehenna" comes from the name of a valley in Jerusalem, the Valley of Hinnom [GY) HNM -> Gehenna], where sacrifices were made to the god Moloch. You can imagine that the valley developed a bad reputation in the consciousness of all those god-fearing Yahwists. Horrid abominations in Gehenna.

Basically, in the Hebrew bible, no. Sheol was mostly used to parallel "death". There is of course the problem of Saul's getting the witch of Endor to call forth of Samuel after the latter's death. Although it was done through witchcraft, it complicates the interpretation of the act.

Things got further complicated when the notion of resurrection was introduced during the Hellenistic crisis in 167-164 BCE -- see Daniel, 2 Maccabees and 1 Enoch. People had to wait somewhere after death -- though the Sadducees may not have been in to the idea of resurrection.

The classic Jewish notion was that a person lived on through their children. And when you is dead, you is dead. And that's it. However, it didn't stay that way.


spin

Lugubert

Yes, and specifically, the important thing was to propagate your "name". That's the basis for the rules on having your "name" continued, like in the laws that condemned poor Onan (Gen. 38) for not producing a child for his brother('s name) through his SIL that wouldn't have been counted as one of his own.

Chili

Probably to have continuity in the reign of God that was also in their midst. This proposition is based on the inspired lineage as given in Luke after the dove descended upon him and of which the wedding in Cana is John's equivalent after Nathanael came tumbling out of the fig tree.

vid

So Luke (and others) use aramaic words "Gehenna" and "Sheol" in otherwise Greek gospels? How are they transliterated, letter-for-letter? Would non-jewish helenistic readers understand meaning of these words?

judge

Gehenna yes, sheol no .

I had meant that the peshitta (which I linked to) uses both these words.

Maybe some greeks would have needed an explanation when they read gehenna I guess.

Gehenna may have been transliterated in order to differentiate if from hades (sheol).