Freethought & Rationalism Archive

WVIncagold · 07-17-2008, 09:56 AM

I would take the premise one step farther though.
Christians are the only ones who can go to Christian hell.
Muslims are the only ones who go to Muslim hell.
and so forth.
Only the belief in that god would entitle you to the benefits, it would also make you vulnerable to any consequences.
since atheist don't worship or believe in anything we just cease to be.
personally i got no problem with that. Who wants to be bored into infinity?
atheist risk nothing.
Theist on the other hand simply by believing let themselves be open to a afterlife and consequences of hell. That is why they are so scared of death.

Demigawd · 07-17-2008, 10:14 AM

Ha! That reminds me of this passage from the Discworld novel FaustEric:

Quote:

The gods of the Disc have never bothered much about judging the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that's where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve to go. Which they won't do if they don't know about it. This explains why it is so important to shoot missionaries on sight.

Demigawd · 07-17-2008, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

I am assuming that everyone who died before Jesus got a "get out of hell free" card. They must present it to God on the day of judgment in order to gain entry into Heaven. I really hope the first of the first humans didn't lose their access pass to Heaven after all these years.

Of course, this implies that God plays favorites and likes the people born before Jesus better than he does us.

I was taught that folks before Jesus pretty much went to Hell. I mean, God did supposedly drown the world at one point in history because he hated the vast majority of humanity. However, there was the strong implication that truly worthy men from time to time got into Heaven. That's very much a pagan principle, much like heroes earning Elysium in the afterlife whilst the rest of us poor slobs got stuck with Hades in Greek mythology.

Half-Life · 07-17-2008, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demigawd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

I am assuming that everyone who died before Jesus got a "get out of hell free" card. They must present it to God on the day of judgment in order to gain entry into Heaven. I really hope the first of the first humans didn't lose their access pass to Heaven after all these years.

Of course, this implies that God plays favorites and likes the people born before Jesus better than he does us.

I was taught that folks before Jesus pretty much went to Hell. I mean, God did supposedly drown the world at one point in history because he hated the vast majority of humanity. However, there was the strong implication that truly worthy men from time to time got into Heaven. That's very much a pagan principle, much like heroes earning Elysium in the afterlife whilst the rest of us poor slobs got stuck with Hades in Greek mythology.

Yeah, that drowning us in water thing was totally unnecessary.

A simple snap of the fingers to make the world disappear and a new one reappear would've sufficed.

Deus Ex · 07-17-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycomiko

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

This also makes me think of Native Americans. It took at least 15 centuries(a lot longer in some places) before the 'Good News' of Christianity reached them. It seems quite unfair for a just and merciful God to throw these people into Hell when they had no chance of 'believing on Christ Jesus'.

and what about all the people that lived BEFORE jesus was even born? i dated a christian girl once (ONCE!) and asked her this and she said "let me ask my dad". then he gave me some BS answer.

Dr. William Craig's response to this is summarized as:
Everyone has the evidence of General Revelation (Nature). Some who truly have not heard the Gospel(s) will be judged on their response to the Truth of General Revelation pointing to God. This doctrine is known as the 'anonymous christian'.

He also believes that God, in his foreknowledge, knew what 'souls' would accept the message of Christ, and those 'souls' would be placed in bodies and historical times where they would receive the message.

Half-Life · 07-17-2008, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deus Ex

Quote:

Originally Posted by cycomiko

and what about all the people that lived BEFORE jesus was even born? i dated a christian girl once (ONCE!) and asked her this and she said "let me ask my dad". then he gave me some BS answer.

Dr. William Craig's response to this is summarized as:
Everyone has the evidence of General Revelation (Nature). Some who truly have not heard the Gospel(s) will be judged on their response to the Truth of General Revelation pointing to God. This doctrine is known as the 'anonymous christian'.

He also believes that God, in his foreknowledge, knew what 'souls' would accept the message of Christ, and those 'souls' would be placed in bodies and historical times where they would receive the message.

Wow I guess those Hindus who looked at nature and saw multiple gods are double fucked up the ass royally in Hell. Maybe they will suffer double infinite type pain since they came to a conclusion of multiple gods and not just one?

And if Craig believes that God knew which souls would accept the message and these souls were placed in bodies during different times, does he also believe that God knew which souls wouldn't accept this message and yet still decided to place these souls in earthly bodies as opposed to not creating them?

Every day Craig seems to lose contact with reality by trying to fit his 8x10 God into a 4x6 frame.

elevator · 07-17-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

Quote:

Originally Posted by elevator

Plenty of people today claim to be the second coming of Jesus (or the manifestation of other deities). I have a distinct feeling that if Jesus lived today instead of 2000 years ago he might have been treated as a nutcase instead (he might have escaped the crucifiction though...)

Not if he was standing out in the middle of a tsunami smiling and waving to everyone on CNN. >

<

Didn't David Blaine walk on water as well? :Cheeky:

Incidentially though, there has, as of yet, not been anything miraculous about these contemporary second-coming claimants (at least not that have been confirmed)... If they did show up waving from amidst the raging forces of a tsunami, then yes, I'd say that be grounds for further investigation of their claims!

+or-1 · 07-17-2008, 01:07 PM

"Excuse me Mr. umm.. what was that name again? I wonder if you wouldn't mind answering a number of questions. Shouldn't take too long. After all, we have all eternity, don't we?"

WVIncagold · 07-17-2008, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elevator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

Not if he was standing out in the middle of a tsunami smiling and waving to everyone on CNN. >

<

Didn't David Blaine walk on water as well? :Cheeky:

Incidentially though, there has, as of yet, not been anything miraculous about these contemporary second-coming claimants (at least not that have been confirmed)... If they did show up waving from amidst the raging forces of a tsunami, then yes, I'd say that be grounds for further investigation of their claims!

Wait 70 to a hundered years after.

Lunawalk · 07-17-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Half-Life

OK, hypothetically, let's say atheists die and wake up to find themselves not dead, but in God's presence. God sees a bunch of us charging toward the pearly gates and He stops us for a second. The Christians that are waiting to get in say things such as "Haha! You're gonna burn for your mistake!" and all other nice things.

God then says, "Now hold on a minute. These atheists are getting in and being welcomed with open arms." The Christians look all confused and puzzled.

God says, "Allow me to explain. You see, since atheists didn't believe I was real, they couldn't commit sin because they didn't think there was a God to defy in the first place. You can only commit sin if you think that I'm watching over you and then you choose to ignore the very God you believe in. Since atheists have never technically done anything wrong since they never believed I was real, they are allowed in. I know you Christians are thinking that this might be unfair, but what can I say? It's a loophole in my system. That's the consequence of being God for reasons unknown to myself. I don't even know how I became God. I just am. So, give me a break."

He then opens the gates and says, "OK atheists.......or should I now say theists??.........you may enter paradise."

I disagree the atheist lacks belief in god, but is aware of the idea of god or gods. only ignorance works if the atheist does'nt have no idea of the supernatual. if god is real he just revel himself to atheists. one way is the christian doctrine of once saved always saved. an atheist who is an ex christian will never lose his salvation according to that doctrine.

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07-17-2008, 09:56 AM	#21
WVIncagold Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: West Virginina Posts: 4,349	I would take the premise one step farther though. Christians are the only ones who can go to Christian hell. Muslims are the only ones who go to Muslim hell. and so forth. Only the belief in that god would entitle you to the benefits, it would also make you vulnerable to any consequences. since atheist don't worship or believe in anything we just cease to be. personally i got no problem with that. Who wants to be bored into infinity? atheist risk nothing. Theist on the other hand simply by believing let themselves be open to a afterlife and consequences of hell. That is why they are so scared of death.

07-17-2008, 01:07 PM	#28
+or-1 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tennessee Posts: 5,199	"Excuse me Mr. umm.. what was that name again? I wonder if you wouldn't mind answering a number of questions. Shouldn't take too long. After all, we have all eternity, don't we?"

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