Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Johnny Skeptic · 09-04-2006, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

I am an agnostic. Here is my position: If a supernatural being inspired the writing of the Bible, he might be good, or he might be evil. Good beings typically reveal their true intentions. Evil beings typically conceal their true intentions. If God is good, omnipotent, and omniscient, by definition he would easily be able to reveal his true intentions if that is what he wanted to do. If God is evil, omnipotent, and omniscient, by definition he would easily be able to conceal his true intentions if that is what he wanted to do. I am not aware of any evidence that A is any more likely than B. Are you?

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Originally Posted by buckshot23

How could we be sure?

Who said anything about being sure? I said "I am not aware of any evidence that A is any more likely than B. Are you?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckshot23

If an omnipotent and omniscient being existed how could we ever be sure as to what it was doing? We are far from both of those characteristics. Sure God could have been playing a trick on us and hiding His intentions. God has the power to do it. However, if God has done any such thing I have no interest in worshiping such a god.

I agree. My position is that there is not sufficient evidence upon which to make a reliable conclusion one way or the other. Jesus said that in order to become saved, a person must love God with all of his heart, soul, and mind, reference Luke 10:25-28. A required commitment like that is not possible based upon "We are FAR [emphasis mine] from both of those characteristics."

buckshot23 · 09-04-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

Who said anything about being sure?

Me.

Quote:

I said "I am not aware of any evidence that A is any more likely than B. Are you?"

Is there any evidence that B is more likely than anything else?

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I agree. My position is that there is not sufficient evidence upon which to make a reliable conclusion one way or the other. Jesus said that in order to become saved, a person must love God with all of his heart, soul, and mind, reference Luke 10:25-28. A required commitment like that is not possible based upon "We are FAR [emphasis mine] from both of those characteristics."

Hmm. Finite minds can never be able to fully comprehend infinite minds. Seemingly you require full knowledge of God and His actions, intentions and motivations before being able to love him with all of your mind. To be able to understand the mind of God is to have the mind of God.

GenesisNemesis · 09-04-2006, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckshot23

Me.

Is there any evidence that B is more likely than anything else?

Hmm. Finite minds can never be able to fully comprehend infinite minds. Seemingly you require full knowledge of God and His actions, intentions and motivations before being able to love him with all of your mind. To be able to understand the mind of God is to have the mind of God.

Contradict, much?

buckshot23 · 09-04-2006, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis

Contradict, much?

No. If one has the mind of God then one does not have a finite mind.:huh:

GenesisNemesis · 09-04-2006, 06:26 PM

How can a finite mind grow to an infinite mind? :huh:

buckshot23 · 09-04-2006, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis

How can a finite mind grow to an infinite mind? :huh:

It can't. That is the point. Fully understanding the actions of an infinite mind is impossible for finite minds.

GenesisNemesis · 09-04-2006, 07:09 PM

That doesn't make any sense :blush:

buckshot23 · 09-04-2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenesisNemesis

That doesn't make any sense :blush:

Let me try one more time. Maybe I am being too cryptic to save on typing.
God's intentions was being discussed and I was noting that God of the bible has an infinite mind. Our minds are finite and cannot fully understand the intentions of an infinite mind like that of God. If we could understand it then we ourselves would have infinite minds. Thus have the mind of God.

Johnny Skeptic · 09-04-2006, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnySkeptic

My position is that there is not sufficient evidence upon which to make a reliable conclusion one way or the other. Jesus said that in order to become saved, a person must love God with all of his heart, soul, and mind, reference Luke 10:25-28. A required commitment like that is not possible based upon "We are FAR [emphasis mine] from both of those characteristics."

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckshot23

Hmm. Finite minds can never be able to fully comprehend infinite minds.

Whoever said anything different? You state the obvious. Ordinary people cannot understand quantum physics either, but what would be the point in stating the obvious?

Quote:

Originally Posted by buckkshot23

Seemingly you require full knowledge of God and His actions, intentions and motivations before being able to love him with all of your mind. To be able to understand the mind of God is to have the mind of God.

I do not require full knowledge. I do not have any evidence that God is or is not who the Bible says he is, but I assume that you believe that you do. All that I ask is for you to provide evidence that it more likely that God is who the Bible says he is than that he is a deceptive, evil imposter. 2 Corinthians 11:14-15 say "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works." In other words, "It is not surprising that Satan pretends to be good." Why isn't it just as likely that God is masquerading as an angel of light as it is that he is who the Bible says he is? If the only evidence that you have is faith, then please say so.

buckshot23 · 09-04-2006, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnny Skeptic

If the only evidence that you have is faith, then please say so.

What type of evidence would establish God's intentions?

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09-04-2006, 06:26 PM	#45
GenesisNemesis Contributor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A pale blue oblate spheroid. Posts: 20,351	How can a finite mind grow to an infinite mind? :huh:

09-04-2006, 07:09 PM	#47
GenesisNemesis Contributor Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: A pale blue oblate spheroid. Posts: 20,351	That doesn't make any sense :blush:

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