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Reload this Page Must you be sinless to make it into heaven? If so, what is a sin?
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:17 PM   #81
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I personally, do not want justice from God. I am going for mercy.
And you're quite sure that he's going to give you choice?
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:48 PM   #82
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God may allow bad things to happen
Does he have any choice in the matter?

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he does not wish them so.
That would imply he does not have a choice.
I have a son. I will allow him to do whatever he wants, but I wish he would always do the right thing. I have a choice and so does God.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:49 PM   #83
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I personally, do not want justice from God. I am going for mercy.
And you're quite sure that he's going to give you choice?
I am banking on it. I guess we will see.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:15 PM   #84
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Oh, wait a moment. Are you arguing that human life isn't worth much -- so your loving and merciful God can do as He wishes with it? Well, then you and your baby-torturing mass-murdering God deserve each other. You're both inhumane.
You know I did not say that. How about if you tell me what length of life and manner of death you consider to be morally acceptable.
Longer than the few months or years your asshole God gives children with malaria.
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Old 08-29-2008, 11:29 PM   #85
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I have a son. I will allow him to do whatever he wants, but I wish he would always do the right thing. I have a choice and so does God.
The Old Testament says you should bring him to the gates of the city and have him stoned to death if he is disobedient. I'm guessing your city doesn't have gates?

The nice thing about simply ignoring the foolishness of superstitious ancient men, is that I can apply the wisdom of the intervening millennia to the raising of my children.

...and when they reach adulthood, it won't be me 'letting' them do what they want, it will be me realizing they are free of my control, and that's why they can do what they want.
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Old 08-30-2008, 03:22 AM   #86
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Does this mean that if I can adhere to my set of morals then christianity isn't for me?
yes, sure. If you are sin-less then you have no need for Christ. Do you always adhere to your set of morals? Romans 3:9-23 suggests that neither you or I can do that.

If you can make that case before God then go for justice. I personally, do not want justice from God. I am going for mercy.

~Steve
Perfection does not bother me. We already agreed that no one can attain it. What bothers me is the "wisdom" of giving up on my own efforts. Sure, some people can't make improvements on their own, but that's what support groups are for. These people still need to make an effort on their own part or they won't get beyond the support group. Self-sufficiency is a good goal and it strengthens society. Religion will strengthen some people's morals, but it can also become a crutch.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:20 AM   #87
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I have a son. I will allow him to do whatever he wants, but I wish he would always do the right thing. I have a choice and so does God.
Do you have the same power God does to make your wish come true?
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:45 AM   #88
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I am just trying to answer the question of what the Bible says about sin.
You're doing a fine job of giving us your interpretation of the Bible.

You're not doing quite so well at explaining why anyone should think your interpretation is more likely to be the right one than any of several other interpretations that Christians have come up with over the past 2,000 years.
I would encourage to approach the text openly and come up with your own interpretation and then take into account the many other interpreations. Perhaps you hagve already done this. If so, please share your interpretation of Romans 1 - 3.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:49 AM   #89
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I have a son. I will allow him to do whatever he wants, but I wish he would always do the right thing. I have a choice and so does God.
Do you have the same power God does to make your wish come true?
Sure, to a degree. I can ground my son out of fear for what he might do. You can see governments now that fear the freedom of it's citizens and legislate right and wrong.

God could keep everyone in a box and make sure they never sin and never feel the consequences of their sin. It speaks to his charascter that he does not.

Bye the way, God is ultimately the only one that has to experience the consequences of sin. (through his own descension to a man and crucifixion). He is not un-engaged as some would speculate.
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Old 08-30-2008, 07:52 AM   #90
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yes, sure. If you are sin-less then you have no need for Christ. Do you always adhere to your set of morals? Romans 3:9-23 suggests that neither you or I can do that.

If you can make that case before God then go for justice. I personally, do not want justice from God. I am going for mercy.

~Steve
Perfection does not bother me. We already agreed that no one can attain it. What bothers me is the "wisdom" of giving up on my own efforts. Sure, some people can't make improvements on their own, but that's what support groups are for. These people still need to make an effort on their own part or they won't get beyond the support group. Self-sufficiency is a good goal and it strengthens society. Religion will strengthen some people's morals, but it can also become a crutch.
Sin is crippling - crutch required. If you do not believe in sin and it's effects then what you are saying makes perfect sense to me.

~Steve
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