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Old 09-07-2009, 09:42 PM   #51
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Karinus and Leucius (a corruption for Leucius Charinus, the name given by church writers to the supposed author of the Apocryphal Acts of John, Paul, Peter, Andrew, and Thomas)
Here's another glimpse, if foggy, of error entering tradition. Too bad the name Leucius Charinus doesn't seem to appear until the time of Photius.
The name "Leucius" - a "cobbler of fables" - appears in the later fourth century with Epiphanius "Against Heresies", Pacian and Augustine. It is subsequently soundly cursed and cussed and rattled around by a succession of indignant fire-breathing Christian emperors. Photius appears the first to add the "Charinus" however, when we think about it, the connection between the two names must have originally been created by whoever it was that authored the gNicodemus in which the two mirror image scribes appear as the magical recorders of great and impending events. Scholarship generally places the authorship in the fourth century.

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Can one really know exactly what happened here? Are Leucius and Karinus a corruption of "Leucius Charinus" or a misunderstanding in the other direction? If there's more information, I'd be interested in hearing about it. I like to find traces of how traditions absorb information.

Leucius Charinus ("The Shadowy author of Tall Apocryphal Tales")

Chronological index of Ancient Historical Mention

0180 ... Irenaeus' Adversus haereses - no mention of names
0220 ... Hippolytus (disciple of Irenaeus) The Refutation of all Heresies - no mention of names
0220 ... Tertullian The Prescription against Heretics - the author of the Acts of Paul was "a presbyter in Asia" !!
0325 ... Eusebius' Historia Ecclesiastica - on "Heretical books" - no mention of names, but cites the titles of texts by "Leucius"
0325 ... Eusebius' Historia Ecclesiastica - and the fiasco over The Forged Acts of Pilate, where "Leucius and Charinus" visit the underworld.
0370 ... Ephraem - "these Acts were written by Bardesanites" - no author name mentioned [Source (1)]
0375 ... Amphilochius of Iconium - certain heretical writings were "not the Acts of the Apostles, but accounts of demons".
0377 *. Epiphanius "Against Heresies" - makes the first explicit reference to the name Leucius - "a disciple of John"
0385 ... Pacian (bishop of Barcelona 365-391 CE) (3 Ep. i. ad Sympr., c. 2.)
0387 ... Philastrius of Brescia - testifies to the use of apocryphal acts among the Manichaeans. (De haeresibus 88)
0399 *. Augustine Contra Faustum Manichaeum (22:79) identified the author "Leucius", a "cobbler of fables".
0??? * Euodius De fide contra Manichaeos (38) identifies the author as "Leucius".
0400 ... Jerome repeats Tertullian, with the addition that the judgment of the priest took place in the presence of the Apostle John, an assertion which is surely erroneous. [Source 3]
0410 *. Pope Innocent I. declared that Leucius was the author of both the Acts of Peter and the Acts of John. [Source 2]
0450 *. Turibius of Astorga - identifies Acts of Andrew, John, Thomas, mentions Leucius, as the author of the Acts of John.
0451 ... Pope Leo I ( Council of Chalcedon) on the "Leucian Acts": "they should be utterly swept away and burned". [History Christian Lit.: G.L. HURST]
0491 *. Decretum Gelasianum (4th century?) - in no uncertain terms states that "Leucius is the disciple of the devil"
0590 ... Gregory of Tours epitomed (and censored) the Acts of Andrew, but does not mention the author.
0787 ... Second Council of Nicaea - "Acts of John" as "this abominable book" - "Let no one read it; and not only so, but we judge it is worthy of being committed to the flames."
0845 *. Photios I of Constantinople - reports that the author is Leucius Charinus, and his books as the "source and mother of all heresy"
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Old 09-09-2009, 01:41 PM   #52
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Would it matter to anyone if an archeological dig turned up proof there was no historical Jesus?
Why would it matter?
I can't imagine what evidence that might be, but if...IF that happened, a few Christians would be threatened, some would staunchly stick with their story despite the "evidence," but many would simply read Pauls writing more literally and conclude that indeed, Christ lived in another realm, a spiritual realm, that the sacrifice he made was on a spiritual level. Dozens of apologetic texts would be written, doctrines would be adjusted, much money would be made. And in a few decades, it would all be back to normal. Except the MJs would be out of a job and the HJs would quietly shift the goal posts by saying the historic jesus lived in a spiritual realm etc.

Think if it as what happened with the creation story in Genesis. Many YECists still hang on despite overwhelming evidence that Genesis is a myth. A majority of Christians just shift their position and still believe in a creator god, just that he did things differently and over a longer time than 6 days.
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Old 09-11-2009, 01:21 AM   #53
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the HJs would quietly shift the goal posts by saying the historic jesus lived in a spiritual realm etc.
Thank Christ for C14.
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