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Old 01-13-2007, 04:46 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jgibson000 View Post
And so I call upon you once more either to finally put your money where your mouth is -- or to admit that with respect to "a lot" of the "early defenses of Christianity did and said, you do not know what you are talking about.

JG
Is this called betting with authority JG?

Everything that anyone on the planet knows about early
christianity is what our dear friend Eusebius has been
kind enough to tell us. HOOK LINE and SINKER.
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Old 01-13-2007, 08:07 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle
I am arguing that all xians up to possibly the eighteenth century actually did not think in terms of cleopatra walking around with godly attributes but of the equivalent of zeus's son walking around with human attributes - born of a woman.
What Christians might have thought through most of their history is not relevant to an investigation of Christianity's origins. What is in question is what Christians believed during the first century.

Even if there was a major change in Christian thinking during the 18th century, your apparent assumption that it was the first major change is, I think, unsupported by the evidence from Christianity's earliest known times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clivedurdle
Prior to [the last few hundred years] . . . christianity would have no problem with a god becoming human, because that is how they understood the universe.
Neither I nor any other mythicist to my knowledge is suggesting that a god-man would have been a problematic concept for any Christians at any time -- with one exception. We don't think any Jewish sect could have embraced it. Leaving that exception aside, though, the issue is not what the first Christians could possibly have believed. The issue is what, according to the evidence that has survived from those times, they were most likely to have believed.

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Originally Posted by Clivedurdle
Christianity has therefore always been mythologically based until recently.
I don't know what you mean by that. Since at least the late second century, Christianity has always affirmed the historical existence of Jesus of Nazareth. According to conventional thinking, including conventional secular thinking, Christianity has affirmed his historical existence from Day One because Christianity was in fact founded by followers of a historical Jesus of Nazareth. The only significant debate in recent times has been over the extent to which that historical personage is accurately represented in the canonical gospels. The mythicist position is that he is not represented at all because he never existed.
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Old 02-15-2007, 08:34 PM   #43
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Just a minor note to those who have either chanted
or written a note to me in regarding Occam's Razor ....

Take your typical HJ theory, or indeed "mainstream"
type of MJ theory, and you will find that at its foundation
are not one, but a series of postulates.

Quote:
List of postulates for HJ Theories

1) Sufficient historicity - the actual history of the time
can be recovered in sufficient detail to have some assurance
that one obscure person existed.
2) HJ Core (assumed as an unexamined postulate).
3) Evidentiary - because "of the fact" that christianity exists,
it may be concluded that some HJ, or charismatic founder,
or "NRM personality" started it.
4) Textual core written records are historical evidence of an HJ.

5) Source Language: the New Testament was written in Greek
6) Transmission: the critical Westcott-Hort transmission is correct
7) History: the christian historiology written c.314 is true and correct
8) Apostlic lineage: the apostle Paul wrote something preserved to us
9) Paul and his letters are "historical"
Now, count the number of postulates at the foundation
of the FJ theory, in which the question is asked "Did
Constantine Invent christianity in the fourth century?":

List of postulates for FJ Theories

1) Eusebian history, is false, is a fabrication, is a pseudo-history.

End of list.
Hello Occam?
Do you read?
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