Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Anat · 06-20-2005, 11:57 PM

Chris, Semitic languages have only 2 genders, male and female. No neuter or anything like that. However, some nouns can be used at time as male, at time female.

Dr_Paine · 06-21-2005, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loomis

It looks like Yahweh may have had sex with Sarah and Hannah.

Genesis 21:1-2
Yahweh visited Sarah just as he had said he would and Yahweh did for Sarah what he had promised. So Sarah conceived and bore Abraham a son in his old age at the appointed time that the elohim had told him.

I Samuel 2:21
Yahweh visited Hannah so that she conceived, and bare three sons and two daughters.

… And of course, Deuteronomy 32:8-9 says Yahweh is a son of El.

I love it! What an interesting take. :devil3:

judge · 06-21-2005, 04:46 PM

In the Aramaic peshitta God is masculine, the holy spirit is feminine and the word of God is somewhere in between.

John 1:1 in Aramaic.

Quote:

Flm 0wh Yhwty0 ty4rb
BRESHIT AYTOHI HWA MILTHA
In the Beginning was the Miltha.

Two masculine verbs linked with a feminine noun. This normally never happens in Aramaic.

Thomas II · 06-21-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Conservative Jewish LA radio talk host Dennis Prager has written a theologically, um, quirky Op-Ed today for Father's Day in the LA Times: Our Father Is No 'It' or Gal God.

Prager lists a number of pop-psychology reasons for making God male - it seems that men need to be civilized but are too pig-headed to take moral laws from a female, that male rebellion against the female authorities of early childhood is necessary, that women have less of a problem with male authority that men do with female authority figures. . . . I imagine that the letters to the editor from both sexes will be interesting.

But he makes some statements that I find puzzling, and I hope someone here can shed some light on things.

He says:

(Prager claims that a male god can be sexually neutral, while a female god can never get rid of her sexual characteristics, "That is why goddess-based religions were also drenched in sacred sex.")

In comparison with Greek, Roman, Epyptian, and other ANE gods, YHWH is relatively well behaved. The other gods were continually fornicating (with both divinities and mortals), and most other creation myths seem to involve some sexual elements.

But can you say that YHWH is sexless? Man was made in his image and is not sexless.

And what does this mean? When did the Israelites de-sexualize their god and why?

Or did they? For more pop psychology, here's another advice column: Can G-d Be a She?

Toto,
I always thought that women had the first shot at religion, and the patriarchal
group and their male god came up as a revolt against their supremacy...
Is this true or not?

Chris Weimer · 06-22-2005, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anat

Chris, Semitic languages have only 2 genders, male and female. No neuter or anything like that. However, some nouns can be used at time as male, at time female.

I know, but Derec said that English did not have a neuter pronoun also, which is what "it" is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derec

But there is no neuter personal pronoun in the english language.

Loomis · 06-22-2005, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

In the Aramaic peshitta God is masculine, the holy spirit is feminine and the word of God is somewhere in between.
…
Two masculine verbs linked with a feminine noun. This normally never happens in Aramaic.

I don’t know much about Aramaic. But if what you say is true then why should John 1:1 be an exception?

Why conclude that the author of John 1:1 had some deep profound inside information, or some secret understanding of some profound mysterious mystery?

Isn’t it possible that the author of John 1:1 just didn’t understand the language?

Loomis · 06-22-2005, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Prager / LA Times

The Bible that introduced this God to humanity depicts God as sexually neuter. In fact, the God of the Bible is the first god in history entirely devoid of sexual characteristics or sexual behavior.

Saying so doesn’t make it so. Prager has bought what he has been taught, but he has not supported his claims with facts.

The fact is that the original god of the Israelites was named El.

Quote:

Genesis 33:20
'El 'elohey Yisra'el

“El is the god of Israel!�?

Quote:

Genesis 46:2-3
An elohim spoke to Israel in a vision during the night and said, “Jacob, Jacob!�? He replied, “Here I am!�? He said, “I am El, the elohim of your father. Do not be afraid to go down to Egypt, for I will make you into a great nation there.

The fact is that El had a beard, and beards are a sexual characteristic of males.

Quote:

From Ugarit
Anat says to El:
your decree, El, is wise;
your wisdom is forever;
A life of good fortune is your decree.
Asherah says to El:
You are great, El,
indeed you are wise,
the grey hair of your beard indeed instructs you.

The fact that “God�? is portrayed as a male is an embarrassment to modern Believers.

The rules of evolution dictate that if Believers are going to survive then they will have to shake this embarrassment.

That’s what’s going on here.

The big lizardfish has just jumped ashore.

judge · 06-22-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loomis

I don’t know much about Aramaic. But if what you say is true then why should John 1:1 be an exception?

Why conclude that the author of John 1:1 had some deep profound inside information, or some secret understanding of some profound mysterious mystery?

It is consistent with the word being identified with Wisdom, or Wisdom resting upon Jesus. Wisdom is described as a she in proverbs.

Quote:

Isn’t it possible that the author of John 1:1 just didn’t understand the language?

unlike the greek versions or the old syriac the peshitta contains perfect Aramaic throughout. It would be a bit strange if the only "problem" was here.

If the author of John didn't understand something as simple as this we would expect a lot more of these errors, but we don't find them.

Toto · 06-22-2005, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas II

Toto,
I always thought that women had the first shot at religion, and the patriarchal
group and their male god came up as a revolt against their supremacy...
Is this true or not?

This is one reading of history. I don't think there is enough evidence to say if it is true or not.

Toto · 06-22-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by judge

In the Aramaic peshitta God is masculine, the holy spirit is feminine and the word of God is somewhere in between.

. . . .

In Jewish Wisdom writings, Wisdom is female. But Philo decided that Wisdom must be masculine, and Christians followed him. "Saint Sophia" = Holy Wisdom is depicted as an old man with grey hair in the Greek Church.

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06-20-2005, 11:57 PM	#11
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	Chris, Semitic languages have only 2 genders, male and female. No neuter or anything like that. However, some nouns can be used at time as male, at time female.

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