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Old 04-06-2009, 08:47 AM   #21
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I'm not sure but it does seem more logical.
So, you don't even know who holds an apparent strawman view of civilization development, yet you consider your myth more logical? Ok...:constern02:

That is correct.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:48 AM   #22
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Ya, because there's no other explanation as to why people in two different places would both figure out how to build structures that are wider at the bottom than they are at the top. I'm convinced.

The Hebrew Bible reports that everyone conjugated in Shinar or Mesopotamia after the flood and spoke one language.
Good grief, it would be nice if you knew your own Bible :constern01:

Nothing in the below verses states that all the humans were now in Shinar. In fact it strongly suggests the opposite.

Ge 10: 4 The descendants of Javan: Elishah, Tarshish, the Kittim, and the Rodanim.
5 These are the descendants of Japheth, and from them sprang the maritime nations, in their respective lands--each with its own language--by their clans within their nations.
6 The descendants of Ham: Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.
7 The descendants of Cush: Seba, Havilah, Sabtah, Raamah, and Sabteca. The descendants of Raamah: Sheba and Dedan.
8 Cush became the father of Nimrod, who was the first potentate on earth.
9 He was a mighty hunter by the grace of the LORD; hence the saying, "Like Nimrod, a mighty hunter by the grace of the LORD."
10 The chief cities of his kingdom were Babylon, Erech, and Accad, all of them in the land of Shinar.
11 From that land he went forth to Asshur, where he built Nineveh, Rehoboth-Ir, and Calah,
12 as well as Resen, between Nineveh and Calah, the latter being the principal city.
13 Mizraim became the father of the Ludim, the Anamim, the Lehabim, the Naphtuhim,
14 the Pathrusim, the Casluhim, and the Caphtorim from whom the Philistines sprang.
15 Canaan became the father of Sidon, his first-born, and of Heth;
16 also of the Jebusites, the Amorites, the Girgashites,
17 the Hivites, the Arkites, the Sinites,
18 the Arvadites, the Zemarites, and the Hamathites. Afterward, the clans of the Canaanites spread out,
19 so that the Canaanite borders extended from Sidon all the way to Gerar, near Gaza, and all the way to Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah and Zeboiim, near Lasha.

Gen 11: 1 The whole world spoke the same language, using the same words.
2 While men were migrating in the east, they came upon a valley in the land of Shinar and settled there.
3 They said to one another, "Come, let us mold bricks and harden them with fire." They used bricks for stone, and bitumen for mortar.
4 Then they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city and a tower with its top in the sky, and so make a name for ourselves; otherwise we shall be scattered all over the earth."
5 LORD came down to see the city and the tower that the men had built.
6 Then the LORD said: "If now, while they are one people, all speaking the same language, they have started to do this, nothing will later stop them from doing whatever they presume to do.
7 Let us then go down and there confuse their language, so that one will not understand what another says."
8 Thus the LORD scattered them from there all over the earth, and they stopped building the city.
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Old 04-06-2009, 08:53 AM   #23
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I think the real question is that with the telephone, internet and translation software that humans have today, we can work together and collaborate in ways that the Babel's couldn't dream of. Is this why God's going to destroy the world again in three years, becuase we're getting all uppity and presuming too much again?
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:05 AM   #24
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I think the real question is that with the telephone, internet and translation software that humans have today, we can work together and collaborate in ways that the Babel's couldn't dream of. Is this why God's going to destroy the world again in three years, becuase we're getting all uppity and presuming too much again?
What really is a crack up, is that the Egyptian pyramids were generally taller than the big dangerous ziggurats, even 3 times taller, what a feeble little god :rolling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza
Built c. 2560 B.C
Great Pyramid was 280 Egyptian royal cubits tall, 146.6 meters, (480.97 feet) but with erosion and the loss of its pyramidion, its current height is 138.8*m (455 feet).

http://www.bible-history.com/babylon...e_Ziggurat.htm
The ziggurats were built on an immense scale: in the time of Hammurapi they would sometimes reach the height of 150 feet.



Of course, ignorance is bliss.... This kind of reality is probably part of what convinced C.S. Lewis that some of the Grand miracles had to be just fantasy (maybe with a cup of value, but still fantasy)
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:07 AM   #25
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God looks at the heart and purposes of man. The Egyptians more than likely weren't trying to reach the sky and see God, it looks like they learned that lesson.
That's God's reaction. I still don't see the logic or anything based on history that would suggest someone who saw God get Angry for building a pyramid at site X would run off to sites y through AC to build ever larger pyramids, but with the RIGHT intentions this time, being to honor gods they invented in the short time between Babel and painting the passages of the pyramids.
I mean, seriously, you're suggesting they remember the tower but not the big pissed off skybeast in the clouds, and decided to invent Osiris, Isis, Ptah, Set...
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:13 AM   #26
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The ziggurat eventually evolved into the cigarette which is now used by people of all tongues throughout the world just as the tower of babel was. Take note oh ye unbelievers.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:15 AM   #27
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The Hebrew Bible reports that everyone conjugated in Shinar or Mesopotamia after the flood and spoke one language. That seems more logical than man evolving at the same time in different parts of the world under different atmospheric conditions and leaning the same designs.
After the flood was only Noah and his family. Of course they would speak the same language.:banghead:

Then you agree with the Bible, that's good.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:17 AM   #28
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Ya, because there's no other explanation as to why people in two different places would both figure out how to build structures that are wider at the bottom than they are at the top. I'm convinced.
Seriously.

Man, to think that I was always taught that the reason that multiple cultures built pyramids had to do with the fact that they used relatively soft, heavy building materials that would crack under their own weight if the structure didn't have a wide base. Boy was I misled...
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:18 AM   #29
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This should help explain why there is no written record of a global flood in Egypt. It’s because Egypt wasn’t inhabited until after the flood and tower of Babel.

Genesis 11:4 “Then they said, "Come, let's build a great city for ourselves with a tower that reaches into the sky.” The Hebrew word for tower in Genesis 11 is “migdal” and the original word is “idgm” which could mean elevated stage, or figuratively, a pyramidal bed of flowers: – castle, flower, tower. This gives support that the tower of Babel was pyramidal or shaped similar to a ziggurat. This could explain why we see ziggurat shaped structures around the world by ancient people, they were built by people who were scattered from Babel. It makes sense that people from Babel took the tower design ideas to their new lands.
It could explain it if you lived in the land of Oz. Otherwise its BS. Your YEC fantasy simply breaks down because there is not enough time for all the history we know, after your 2100-2400BCE flood (the date depends on when one dates the Exodus). Now in Ge 11, it doesn't really tell us when this "confusion of languages" purportedly happened. However, I think it would be safe to say that since only the Cush's (1 of Noah's grandsons) descendents went to the land of Shinar, that it would be at least 200 years after the Deluge. And I think that is really still being too generous. So this would put it between 1900-2200BCE. Now you have to build up 2 civilizations that have eons of history, and somehow squeeze 1,000 years of written history into time where there are already a dozen other kingdoms with their own written history that is now cross referenced against other empires. Now that would take a real miracle to make history LIE.

You see, by the time of you Babel event, the Akkadians were over running the Sumerian civilization, and putting it under their heal. Ironically, Babel actually means "Gate of the gods" in the native language of the place. These ziggurats were part of the temple (religious center) of every major town. There were a quite a few of them, not one. We have many records from them, and know some of the religious functions. And within 200 more years of history Babylonia was emerging. This time period is not in some sort of vacuum, written in a single set of holy writings with no physical evidence, or external written information to support them (you know kind of like the opposite of your fantasy Deluge, Joshua's solar object demands, or Tower of Babel). You again demonstrate your complete lack of knowledge on ancient history and archeology.
According to Ussher, the global flood happened in year 2348 BC, tower of Babel 2242 BC, and Egypt began 2242 BC. I don't see a conflict at this time.
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Old 04-06-2009, 09:19 AM   #30
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The story of the tower of babel is even more nonsensical than the flood story. So why are we even talking about it?

It's our history.
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