christ-on-a-stick

Hello mrmoderate - Disagree - as someone else pointed out, taxpaying is not voluntary - and many of us who do not support the invasion of Iraq have been actively speaking out against it as well as doing what we are personally able to do in order to oust those currently in power responsible for the debacle. Same with same-sex marriage; individuals are free to not only agree or disagree with various courts' opinions on the matter but to contribute to legal/political action as they see fit on whichever "side" they come down on the issue.
Again, no, not if they speak out against it and/or take whatever actions they are able to work against it.
Er... unless there is an organization out there I'm unaware of, again, no... homosexuals are not an organized group with "teachings", doctrines, and a Grand Gay Poobah who decrees from on high.
Come on now... your logic here is Swiss-cheese-like! If someone opposed to abortion belongs to a group that advocates bombing clinics, then yes. See the difference?

jmem

I see your point. To be more clear, I don't understand how people, especially liberal Christians, can support and defend the God that is represented in the Bible. Does that make more sense?

jmem

Look, I don't support this war at all and I'd be as happy as the next person to shrug off responsibility for the ugliness of it all, but yes it is my opinion that the American people are responsible for our government. If not us then who??

However, I don't think you can really compare joining/leaving a church to moving out of the country or refusing to pay taxes. The fact is that being a member of the Catholic Church, and giving it money, is completely voluntary. If one sees that the church is corrupt, one can easily withdraw support with no risk of losing their home or going to jail. With the U.S. government, not so much. So this is a flawed analogy in more than one way.

The Catholic Church has a very long history of saying "Hey, who cares?" right up until someone gets caught and there is a public outcry, and only then do they choose to work to do something about it.

Alright now that is just some twisted logic. Please show me how it relates to anything I've said.

Hedshaker

I agree with you. Betrayal is much greater when commited from a position of trust. For this reason I despise anyone who would abuse children, Catholic priest, nun, or secular youth leader.

No. You cannot be held resonsible for someone elses crimes, [sic] neither can you allow their actions to direct your ideology. You should stop being a catholic and going to churth for different reasons, IMHO.

Fair enough, and kudos to those who work toward that end. But that has much to do with the unhidden times we live in. These things are difficult to hide in this age of technology and information. How many hundreds of years have these practices been forbidden yet condoned by the proverbial blind eye?

I sincerely hope so.

I think the later is more often the case which means that church leaders have put their own interests before the interests of innocent children. A very, very sad situation I'm sure you will agree.

:thumbs: I think we are all aware of that, theist and atheist alike .

Peace

Eric[/QUOTE]

Orbit

Yahzi

My sister claimed the same crap. Never mind that National Socialism taught values, too.

But it didn't work. Her allegedly Catholic husband never went to church, and so pretty soon the boy rebelled. He wanted to go fishing or motorcycle racing on Sunday like Dad did. And of course the girl didn't want to do it if the boy didn't have to. So my sister had to give up.

Years later, my brother-in-law blamed me for making his son an atheist. My response was, "When in the last 17 years have you stepped foot in a church?" (They didn't even get married in one!).

Amazing how a guy can not go to church one single time, never speak to his kids about religion, and then find someone else to blame for making them atheist.

He did admit to provding a "religious vaccum." Now if only he knew what the word atheist actually meant...

mrmoderate

These arguments are exactly my point. If members of the Catholic Church condone the abuses that have occured at the hands of the sick bastards in the priesthood then they would be guilty. I have not yet met any Catholic that has not been disgusted with the actions of the abusers.

mrmoderate

I would like to turn this argument around a bit and point a finger within the Catholic Church. While I do not at all feel that members of the Catholic Church should be condemned by the actions of the priests, nuns and bishops I do feel the the organizational structure of the Catholic Church should be held responsible.

I also strongly feel that any member of the Catholic Church that has in any way veiled these abuses, and there are many who are guilty, they should be considered more guilty that the abuser. The abuser may be a mentally ill individual but anyone that covers for those sickos needs to be condemned as supporting a crime. This BS about the Catholic Church taking care of its own has got to stop. Catholics need to be just as responsible to the laws of the land just as any other citizen is.

Chili

Well I am not proud of those priests and wonder why they would want to be a priest.

Do you not think that pedophlia is a societal disease? and does that not make all of us responsible first? It seems to be on the increase but is not contageous nor is it a world wide problem.