FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Archives > Religion (Closed) > Non Abrahamic Religions & Philosophies
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Yesterday at 03:12 PM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-30-2003, 01:04 PM   #31
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: U.S.
Posts: 4,171
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy_the _Atheist
After thinking about this a little, I am thinking that maybe the best approach is to start off by telling them that I already understand quite well that the cards are stacked against me and that I can't hope to realistically "deconvert" anyone. So instead just give a general overview of atheism and atheistic thought from the POV of a former christian.
This is almost right. I've done a few of these interreligious events and in fact I'm doing another big one (atheism and christianity only) in the Dallas area probably in February. I hope my experience can be of help. In fact I volunteered to fly up there and participate in this one but the Church refused. You can get way in over your head if you don't watch out.

I agree with the points others are making that you need to consider strategy. You also need to consider the audience. What are their ages? Why are they there to hear you? How many people will be in the audience? and so on.

Also I would suggest CLEAR and UNAMBIGIOUS ground rules for any questions and answer periods or for that matter they entire episode. Its their house and they can tilt the table any way they want unless you stand up and say you will not participate in a turkey shoot.

I suggest that your goal should SOLELY be to work toward changing the negative stereotypes of atheists. Don't try to convince them god belief is silly or wrong.

I suggest the following.

1) Don't argue belief vs belief. It's a waste of time. You can present why you believe (or disbelieve) one way or another. However, trying to convince the audience that a particular one is better than one they hold about a fundamental issue (such as Jesus is Lord or god exists) is usually a waste of time.

2) State outright that you respect others rights to believe and that you are not there to change others beliefs. Don't say it like you stated above "The cards are stacked against me so I'm not going to try to convince you." Such a phrasing suggests your case is weak.

3) State your PURPOSE quickly. I suggest that you state that you are there to better relations between atheists and theists and nothing more. Remember that YOU define why you are there and what you are saying; not them. DO NOT let them tell you that youa re there to "disprove god" or anything else. YOU decide what you are there for and nothing else.

4) Practice your talk with a timer preferably in front of someone who can critique you. If you are an unexperienced public speaker then you can easily be shot around by an experienced one (i.e. the minister of this church) with little effort.

5) Always point out agreement. One tendency for inexperienced people is that they assume a trench warfare mentality and dig in. Don't be afraid to agree. For example, I note that many of not most atheists believe the Golden Rule as stated in the bible and I note how many theists believe in evolution when it comes up (when it comes up). You should do this by emphasizing SIMILARITIES and not differences. That is, both sides believe in justice, fairness, they want their kids to be safe, they want crime free neighborhoods, and so on.

6) Represent your side and not theirs. Do not bother trying to interpret Christian theology or interpret passages in the Bible. If you give examples of problems in the bible remind the audience that it is merely one example, and that there are thousands of others.

7) remember your audeience. Remember your audience. Remember your audience. You are speaking to them.

8) Do not go into it with the attitude that you are there to take on all apologists in a verbal fistfight. Also tell the audience this at the beggining.

9) Bust stereotypes immediately. In your opening statement tell them that atheists are of all political stripes, that atheism doesn't require a belief in evolution, that atheists are not "mad at god", and so on.

1o) Don't assume the premises of questions are proper or well thought out. When someone asks about morality and its absolute nature its important to question that premise. When someone asks about evolution, they assume that atheists MUST believe evolution and Christians reject it. Neither it true.

Quote:
I would also present some of the atheistic arguments but caution the audience that if they think that countering these arguments as I have presented them will not be enough because this is just the surface level and to go into depth on each argument would require more time that what is available on that particular night.
Yes. I present brief discussions of arguments such as "no evidence" and "science now explains things once explained by god" and then I INVITE people to ask questions about them during the Q and A.

Quote:
I was thinking dropping the creation/evolution debate but now I am thinking I will go ahead and mention it. The reason is because christian like to try to poke holes in evolutionary theory and I know it's going to come up even I don't address it directly so I might as well. The approach I would take is not to present evidence for evolutionary claims, but to point out to the audience that if they wish to discuss evolution with people, they need to actually do some reading and actually understand how the theory works.
I do not suggest this tact. I suggest pointing out that evolutionary theory is widely accepted and that many Christians accept it as well. Note that in almost all industrialized and modern countries god believers accept evolution and that attacks on it are mostly limited to the United States. Then suggest the question is not whether or not evolution is true but why it is that so many people of faith find it an acceptable theory. You should then suggest that the audience find those people of faith and engage them in dialogue.

Not a bad start. I would also put some thought into the morality question as this will come up as well. On that point don't go down the road of "Christians burned people at the stake" because it doesn't get to the main point you want to emphasize about morality. That point being that atheists are just as moral as anyone else.

DC
Rusting Car Bumper is offline  
Old 12-30-2003, 05:38 PM   #32
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: A world less bright without WinAce.
Posts: 7,482
Default

Hmm. If I were to do what you are, I'd probably start with a deconversion story, then go with a "Why Christianity?" format.

I would go through why the answers to that question fail to satisfy. I would probably focus on atheism as a lack of belief. A lack of discovery of a successful answer to that question. I might even point out what it would take to make it make sense, to me, to be a theist.

Lack of evidence, lack of reason, lack of neccessity would probably be key points.

Oh yeah, I think I would use a lot, A LOT, A LOT, of humor. Laughter breaks barriers. It's hard to see you as the devil while giggling.

But coming from a public speaking background, I have to highly second Digital Chicken's advice. Know your audience. Practice. Don't read your presentation. Videotape or audio tape your presentation and listen to it. Relax. Relax. Relax.
Angrillori is offline  
Old 12-30-2003, 07:23 PM   #33
Regular Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 272
Default

Digital Chicken,

Thank you for the advice.

The audience is going to be high schoolers, and there will be about 300 of them. It will start at about 7 and end at about 8:30.

What ground rules would you suggest?

Also, I have rewrote my intro. I'll am posting it at this thread:

http://www.iidb.org/vbb/showthread.p...threadid=72259

do you have any suggestions on how to make it better?

I'll post more as I get more ready. I wrote out my deconversion story but it's too heavy handed. I'm going to edit it and change it up a little.
Jeremy_the _Atheist is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 01:18 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.