Freethought & Rationalism Archive

jgibson000 · 12-12-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Picture this scene in 37 AD. A group of Jews stand up in the centre of Jerusalem and say that a man in very recent history was God Incarnate.

How long would they have continued speaking before they were all stoned for heinous blasphemy?

Leaving aside the question of whether there is any other sort of blasphemy [as you wording implies there is -- i.e., non heinous blasphemy], the answer is "Who knows?".

But where on earth do you get the idea that a group of Jews said any such thing in 37 C.E?

Quote:

Paul in Galatians 6 says Christians were persecuted on the issue of circumcision.

Isn't there a hidden elephant here? Why does Paul not record any controversy over the idea that God could be a material being?

Maybe because he never thought God could and never asserted that he did, and because you are imposing the Christology of Nicea and Chalcedon onto Paul.

Quote:

How can Paul say it is foolish to try to say that God could be found in the image of a mortal human being? Isn't that his central message? God became fully human?

Nope.

JG

gstafleu · 12-12-2006, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Robots

Well, Paul does claim to have been beaten and stoned (2Cor 11:25).

True: "24 Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, ..." But he did walk away from it, so apparently whatever he did didn't deserve a death sentence. Can you walk away from 39 lashes or from a stoning?

Gerard Stafleu

gstafleu · 12-12-2006, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgibson000

Leaving aside the question of whether there is any other sort of blasphemy [as you wording implies there is -- i.e., non heinous blasphemy

Well, given that some blasphemy apparently deserved death, and Paul walked away from whatever it was he was punished for, perhaps he did commit only non-heinous blasphemy

. (Perhaps he was smart enough not to utter the tetragrammaton.)

Quote:

How can Paul say it is foolish to try to say that God could be found in the image of a mortal human being? Isn't that his central message? God became fully human?

Nope.

Errr... shades of Doherty?

Gerard Stafleu

Solo · 12-13-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steven Carr

Paul in Galatians 6 says Christians were persecuted on the issue of circumcision.

Isn't there a hidden elephant here? Why does Paul not record any controversy over the idea that God could be a material being?

He doesn't ? And what on earth is the "scandal of the cross" all about ?

Gal 5:11 But if I brethern preach circumcision, why am I still being persecuted ? In that case the σκανδαλον of the cross has been removed.

Now, I read the first person singular here as a rhetorical device. Paul shoots this at his Petrine opponents who worship Jesus as "a material being" (i.e. human in flesh), something that Paul considers idolatry and would not touch with a ten-foot pole.

Jiri

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.