zonmoy

that Christians make that anybody that doesn't believe what they believe are fools. you point out the nonsense in their beliefs and you point out the dishonesty of their god and other leaders and they say that your a fool for not believing.

Jeffrey Gibson

In the same way that you challenge many of my fellow atheists here who have no real grounding in Biblical studies and don't know what they are talking about when they make claims about what NT authors say and yet go on to assert, as they do, that anyone who doesn't accept their claims are fools (and worse).

JG

zonmoy

how is that. also the theophiles make the claims and then have a bunch of bible verses that support their calling people fools for that.

how do you counter those verses.

Jeffrey Gibson

By becoming more knowledgeable about those verses than the ones who use them are.

But this assumes that those with whom you engage with your knowledge are susceptible to rational argument and are capable of knowing what is and what is not good evidence when they see it. "True believers" of any stripe are not. What's more, they are incapable of knowing (or admitting) that they are not. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect.

So if these are the sorts of people you are dealing with, it will be unrealistic of you to think you can ever "win" with them.

JG

zonmoy

that is the problem since my family and their church are determined to love and worship their god and force the same on me no matter what reality is.

Dutch_labrat

Holy Moses, that is an easy one. Calling people who don't agree with you fools is the most basic ad hom there is. It is also completely invalid and it does nothing to help the debate.

And to be honest, fools can indeed be found among theists, deists agnosts and atheists. So let's just keep the debates on a higher level where such name-calling is both unwarranted and absent.

zonmoy

easy enough assuming that the other side isnt intent on loweing the debate to that level. went to my parents church today and had to listen to the pastor preach that anybody that aint fundy like them is a fool for about an hour. then had my family try to use the service to push me back into their religion.

:banghead:

Clouseau

Can you quote someone who has made these claims?

zonmoy

my parents want to send me a copy of the sermon so if I can figure out a way to get it on line I might be able to do so.

http://calvaryeauclaire.org/

web site of their church.

Clouseau

It will have to be independently verified as accurate by the preacher, of course.

What I meant was a quote from a published author or official denominational publication. Nothing much from the USA's ground level would surprise many people, but it would be surprising, I think, if people were taking this attitude from their own publications.