fast

I wouldn't say it's obvious, but I'd say it's true.

Very good. You are correct.

Close but not quite.

The strong atheist says, "There are no Gods."

Of course; you were only close.

Yes.

Strong atheist = ~B(G) & B(~G)

A strong atheist lacks belief in all Gods and believes that there are no Gods.

Wiploc

I used to let this pass, but too often somebody turns up believing you can't be a strong atheist unless you say so. So I'm pointing out that being a strong atheist depends on what you believe, not what you say. A strong atheist believes there are no gods. Or, as Dlugar would have it, a strong atheist accepts that as a true proposition.

crc

fast

You are correct--as you often are.

But, in this instance, I didn't mean it literally. In fact, I even hesitated before saying it knowing that you are here keeping a watchful eye. I felt at the time that it might help expedite understanding by being a little relaxed on technicality.

wordy

If we need 5 pages of discussions to define atheist then it is a failed concept.

Get real! Don't get offended now but is this not very typical a men issue. Women very seldom engage in such meticholous sorry spelling, is it not a typical systemic approach to something that is about a relation to a tradition.

Atheists don't participate in the religious traditions and if they do they do it for a social reason to get along with those who are believers around them.

I went to church every sunday for one year cause a gf wanted me to give Jesus a chance. Then some 6 years later she left Jesus herself and remarried her former man. He is a priest. He hated me for being with her that year.

This philosopic nitpicking could be entertaining but does it really help us get more rights in the society we live in?

Most people couldn't care less about our defining. To them it is about relation to a tradition or to not have that relation.

Steven Mading

Yes. Misconceptions about what atheists actually are (usually related to the notion that all atheists are strong atheists) are at the core of many misconceptions about atheism - misconceptions that in turn lead to the bad reputation that atheists have, which in turn leads to problems trying to get more rights.

fast

An atheist is not a concept. An atheist is a person.

Wiploc

crc

Steven Mading

What word would you use for someone who lacks belief in all gods and for which there are some (but not all) gods which he also goes that one step further and believes do not exist? Your terminology says such a person is identical to a weak atheist for whom there are NO gods which be believes do not exist. I have a problem with that because it doesn't cover my case, nor does it cover the case where there are gods you haven't heard of yet, (I don't see how it is possible to have a positive belief about a concept you've never heard of, so even the strongest of strong atheists can only be a strong atheist with regards to the gods he's actually heard of, at most.)

To say that a strong atheist must necessarily have a positive disbelief in each and every god ever invented, even ones he hasn't heard of, is to say that only omniscient people can be strong atheists. That's why I don't think it's a workable definition.

Wiploc

I don't have a problem believing that no gods (even yet-to-be-invented gods) exist. I do believe that. So I'm a strong atheist.

And you're a weak atheist, though you can say you're a strong atheist with regard to the Christian god and every other god you ever heard of.

crc

fast

Terms (for reference):

B(G) = theist = one who believes that at least one God exists.
~B(G) = atheist = one who lacks belief that there are any Gods.

~B(G) & ~B(~G) = weak atheist = An atheist who also lacks belief that there are not any Gods.

~B(G) & B(~G) = strong atheist = An atheist who holds a belief that there are no Gods.

There is not such a word, nor ought there be. What word would you use to describe a football player who likes ice-cream? There need not be a single word to describe such a person.

You, nor your position, is being defined out of existence. You either are, or you are not a theist. If you are a theist, then you are not an atheist, and if you are an atheist, then you are not a theist; they are mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive categories.

Likewise, if you are an atheist, then you are either a weak atheist or a strong atheist--even if you don't know which you are, but you are certainly not both, for the terms are mutually exclusive, and if two terms are mutually exclusive, then you cannot by definition (hence, it's logically impossible) for you to belong to both groups.

According to the above quote, (and assuming that you're talking about yourself), you lack belief in all Gods. Therefore, it's clear (well, at least somewhat clear) that one, you are not a theist, and two, that you are an atheist.

Furthermore, and notwithstanding the commonality among the weak and strong atheist groups, you are aware that a strong atheist is one that believes that there are no Gods, and it's clear that you do not hold the belief that no Gods exist; therefore, it is not the case that you are a strong atheist; moreover, since you are an atheist, and since you are not a strong atheist, then you are a weak atheist despite the fact that you do hold a belief that some Gods don't exist.

Contrari-wise, if it had been the case that you did hold that no Gods exist, then you would be a strong atheist, but that's not the position you hold at all, so again, you are a weak atheist, but as you might so eloquently as I put it, that term alone is not sufficient to describe your position, but then again, there's no word to describe a football player who likes ice-cream either.

You are a weak atheist who holds a belief that some Gods don't exist.

Let's look at it from another angle. Let's see if you meet the necessary conditions to be classified as a weak atheist as I have already demonstrated to be the case.

The first condition is that you lack belief that there are any Gods. You meet that condition without a hitch. I surmise this given what you said. You said, “someone who lacks belief in all gods.” You did say it. It’s in the quote I cite above.

Next, and finally, we’re off to the second and trickier condition.

The second condition to meet to be properly classified as a weak atheist is that you lack belief that there are not any Gods.

Concentrate on a slightly shortened version, “lacks belief that there are no Gods.” Maybe it's that second condition that is troubling you so. Look at it one piece at a time.

Notice the last four words, "there are no Gods". Do you believe that? No.

So, you lack belief that there are no Gods. That's you right there!