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Reload this Page History Rejects the Assumption of a Historical Gospel Jesus Figure
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:52 AM   #151
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If you don't accept Josephus as an historian (although biased at times), who do you accept?
Onias
For the period relevant to the gospel story - we have to deal with the Josephan writer. We either accept what he writes as factual - or we require that his stories get checked out. In such an important question as to the historicity of the gospel JC - its necessary to deal with the history that can be established. Getting side-tracked into stories in Josephus about figures for which there is no historical evidence - is just that - getting side-tracked from the history we do have.

That is the purpose of the OP chart. Dealing with Hasmonean/Jewish history that is known. Dealing with historical figures for which there is evidence - the Hasmonean/Herodian coins.

The alternative? Characters, figures, in Josephan stories. The gospel JC is a figure in a story. Why accept JC as a figure in a story - and leave the Josephan writer free to run his own storyline...The way past all the stories - is to use, reference, the figures that we know to have been historical figures.
Mary,
So you do not accept that Josephus is writing about historical people unless there are also coins minted in their image?
Onias
For what I am attempting to do - i.e. identify the makeup of the composite gospel JC - then, yes, historical evidence is required. One figure in a gospel story and another figure in a Josephan story - gets nowhere fast.....
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:58 AM   #152
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Looks like very few people could be considered historical if we only consider those who had coins minted in their image.:huh:
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:30 PM   #153
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Looks like very few people could be considered historical if we only consider those who had coins minted in their image.:huh:
Of course - of the millions, billions, who have walked the earth - it's only a small fraction that have left evidence behind that they existed - that they were flesh and blood historical figures.

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Historical artifacts, such as coins, are testimony to the fact that certain individuals were historical figures. That is the bare bones of historical evidence.
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:10 AM   #154
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Suppose that someone incidentally digs up a small metal disc on which the usual face of a man/woman and some incomprehensible lettering in an unknown language can be seen.


This coin comes from an ancient unknown civilisation and it is showing a totally unknown language.


What is this coin telling you?
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Old 04-28-2013, 01:56 AM   #155
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Looks like very few people could be considered historical if we only consider those who had coins minted in their image.:huh:
Well, at least we know this one particular owl has existed, and lo and behold, we can even imagine that we know its name if we pretend we're a bit dumb:
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:43 AM   #156
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Suppose that someone incidentally digs up a small metal disc on which the usual face of a man/woman and some incomprehensible lettering in an unknown language can be seen.


This coin comes from an ancient unknown civilisation and it is showing a totally unknown language.


What is this coin telling you?
It's not telling me anything useful....
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:50 AM   #157
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Suppose that someone incidentally digs up a small metal disc on which the usual face of a man/woman and some incomprehensible lettering in an unknown language can be seen.


This coin comes from an ancient unknown civilisation and it is showing a totally unknown language.


What is this coin telling you?
It's not telling me anything useful....
What then is the coin with the name “antigonus” telling you?
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Old 04-28-2013, 02:55 AM   #158
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Suppose that someone incidentally digs up a small metal disc on which the usual face of a man/woman and some incomprehensible lettering in an unknown language can be seen.


This coin comes from an ancient unknown civilisation and it is showing a totally unknown language.


What is this coin telling you?
It's not telling me anything useful....
What then is the coin with the name “antgonus” telling you?
The Antigonus coins provide evidence that this figure (a figure know from Josephus, Cassius Dio and Plutarch) was a historical figure.
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:05 AM   #159
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What then is the coin with the name “antgonus” telling you?
The Antigonus coins provide evidence that this figure (a figure know from Josephus, Cassius Dio and Plutarch) was a historical figure.
The ‘Josephus’ coin confirms that the name “antigonus” which is found in a book was also used in a coin.

What is this coin telling you?
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Old 04-28-2013, 03:16 AM   #160
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What then is the coin with the name “antgonus” telling you?
The Antigonus coins provide evidence that this figure (a figure know from Josephus, Cassius Dio and Plutarch) was a historical figure.
The ‘Josephus’ coin confirms that the name “antigonus” which is found in a book was also used in a coin.

What is this coin telling you?
I really don't know what you are trying to say here!

Antigonus is recognized as a historical figure. If you have problems with that - then I suggest you send your objections to an historian at some university history department.....

I'm really not interested in playing games here...The figures mentioned in the OP chart are recognized historical figures; testified to by the Hasmonean/Herodian coins.

Any other figures that you want to consider re questions of historicity - please start your own thread.
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