Doug Shaver

OK. I'll get started, and when I've done enough for one post, I'll put it up and see where it takes us.

storytime

Of nations as inheritance to Abraham and his seed are listed in Gen.15:18-21

"In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river Euphrates: The Kennites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaim, and the Amorties, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites."

Is there any other nationalities of people that Abraham and his seed inherited?

About Rm.2:28, Paul could have just as easily explained it this way:

Ask a Jewish rabbi if he is a hypocrit or a real Jew inwardly who follows his traditional customs of food laws and sabbath keeping, etc. Or does he merely parade himself in public for show, as a Jew outwardly, boasting his circumcision. It seems that Paul was speaking of hypocrisy (taking the name of the Lord God in vain), compared to matters of the heart that determined devotion and loyalty to their god. One must have the desire[love] to please god just as Abraham through faith, and to obey in follow through with the proper actionable behavior called works.

Was a Jew considered worth anything if he did not produce fruit [works] fit for the kingdom of God? Or was he considered as stubble, fully dry, ready to be burned because of his unproductivity? It doesn't look to me as if the Jewish god had any use for Jews unless they produced [worked] for him, to keep his name great among the nations[of Israel]. For God, to keep God alive, was expedient to His purpose.

storytime

"Must you be sinless to make it into heaven?"

Ezekiel 33 pretty well answers that question. It also explains the going in and out of Judaism. iow, a return is always possible as the doors [gates] are always open and never shut.(NT)

In Romans 1-3, Paul is addressing his Jewish brethren who are citizens of Rome and Greece [ or Greeks]. Paul himself was both a Jew and citizen of Rome, thus his appeal to Caesar prevented the Jews from stoning him to death. Jesus wasn't so lucky in that regard and was judged and convicted under Jewish law as Judaean.

What is a sin? Transgression of law. Reading the NT, I find the whole story is in transgression of OT law given to Jews[Israel] at Sinai. Jesus makes himself equal to God in direct contradiction of established doctrine. Peter's vision is lies because God had caused visions to cease (Ez.12:23-28, 13:1-3). Paul lies about uncircumcised Gentiles being accepted by God as a people. (Which would have made two groups of people and two namesakes, of which nothing can be found in OT to validate that claim).

I agree with Pete(mountainman) that this is a totally invented story created for the benefit of the Roman Emperor Constantine and inflicted with the wickedness of Euesbius and whoever else in their purpose of building manageable wealth and expansion of the empire by/through a conspiracy. Also, deceiving the Jews into believing a different doctrine through a Jewish god-man who they thought would satisfy the Jewish idea of resurrection and Messiah. Probably ignorant Jews who were unlearned in scriptures was the target of this new inventive religion. "Sin" was then inflicted without law to the Gentiles, as the character Paul presented his god as no respector of persons.

What then is "sin" to non-Jewish people? BIG fat and fanciful lies in a bastardized Judaism.

WVIncagold

I do not believe i to be off the mark at all. Xians stole the jewish religion, then they decidied it was way to restrictive and then decided they did not need to follow those things declared as sin so they became Jewish Lite all the worship but only half the guilt. I beleieve i have stated several times what i believe sin to be. made up rules in order to govern people. There are listed 600 sins i posted earlier. It is all about control of the people by the elite authority. There is no other purpose. There is no such thing as sin except for that found in the books of bronze age sheep herders. Sin does not exist so therefore all sin is the same yes, make believe hooyey. I have several jewish friends although they are humanist and no longer practice so i doubt you will suprise me but i am open to leraning new forms of hooyey.

Roger Pearse

Hmm. Well, there's an idea; replace confirmation with circumcision.

It should certainly put a stop to all the little atheists getting confirmed; or, at least, give those who can't duck out of it something REAL to complain about!

You wouldn't half feel hurt if you went through that and then decided you were an atheist

WVIncagold

please do it in another thread you are derailing this one quite a bit as it is.

storytime

All the little atheists getting confirmed?

Roger, do you consider yourself a sinner?

sschlichter

The discussion of what Romans says about sin is derailing in a thread about sin in a biblical criticism forum? that's interesting?