Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sheshbazzar · 03-14-2005, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

OOOO! OOOO! PICK ME PICK ME PLEEEEZ! Can I give them a hint? Look at the Hebrew for Genesis 3:20

Please, expound.

Magdlyn · 03-14-2005, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spin

Perhaps it was inscribed on the shell of a cocoanut which was carried across the ocean by an African swallow.

spin

A swallow couldn't carry a coconut!!!

Chris Weimer · 03-14-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheshbazzar

Please, expound.

Not that I personally believe it, as I haven't done enough with Hebrew to make a valid conjecture, but HWH seems to be a good candidate for the second form of Yahweh, since it is Eve, the mother of all living things.

Chris Weimer · 03-14-2005, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

A swallow couldn't carry a coconut!!!

Well, maybe two swallows carried it together?

Clivedurdle · 03-14-2005, 11:48 AM

Poor Little Eve

Quote:

August 29, 2000

Heh, Heh funny you should mentioned that (referring to title the doc ironically gave this page: "But what if Allah is a Woman?") - because right in the bible are all these female versions of the word and the male re-writes put "he" instead of "she": got this from a very, very, very long website:

http://www.webcom.com/~way/way-11.html {dead link - mod}

Here are some examples:

"Miriam, as the High Priestess, chose her brother Aaron as her spokesperson.

"Who is JE-HO-VAH? Are you sitting down? Good.* The name 'Jehovah,' is a code word used in the place of God's actual* name. This code was used because (according to the 'revisionists') if anyone should say God's real name, 'the entire universe would end.' So they said. So they invented a code word known as the TETRAGRAMMATON. This code is composed of four letters, YHWH. It can be used in place of God's real name. You are allowed to pronounce it 'Jehovah' or
'Yahweh' (and a couple of lesser used variations). What is important here is that this code supposedly represents not the name actually, but rather what God is.

"So that you can understand, let's translate YHWH to Latin. 'Y' translates to 'I.' So the first letter is to announce that "I" am what follows. Now hold onto your hats, let's translate the final three letters and end any doubt you may have had about the gender of* the deity speaking in the above verse. HWH = 'EVE' when translated to Latin. Y-H-W-H = I-E-V-E. What does 'EVE' mean?

"It is the Prime word for all females on this planet. It means* "WOMAN" I-WOMAN = I-EVE = Y-HWH. I did not make this up. It was put there in the Bible by the early writers to atone for changing so much else. They felt okay to change a woman to a man, but they drew the line at changing the identity and gender****** of their deity. If the truth ever became known, they would be able to fall back on this and say, "See we didn't change this, and it says <140>I WOMAN'."

"Exodus (6) 28: 'And it came to pass on the day when the LORD spake unto Moses in the land of Egypt, 29: That the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, I am the LORD: speak thou unto Pharaoh king of Egypt all that I say unto thee. 30: And Moses said before the LORD, Behold, I am of uncircumcised lips, and how shall Pharaoh hearken unto me?' Moses, wasn't***circumcised? All the males of Israel were circumcised. None of the women were, though, and Miriam would have been one of uncircumcised lips."

The DOMA (where this came from) has no email address or anything! After reading the entire 16 pages of this, it reminds me of the Bene Gesserit from the movie Dune. BTW: Ishtar had male sacrifices, then later male lambs. That's way Jesus is called the Lamb of God. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Anatasia

[mod's note - the above is quoted from here. ]

Chris Weimer · 03-14-2005, 12:05 PM

Maybe I shouldn't have fueled you. No, no, and well...erm...no. First, the first website is a Catholic conspiracy website, everything it says is instantly discredited because of its a priori position. The second website doesn't work. Where do you get the "universe ending" thing? I can't find it. As for representation of YHWH into Latin it being IEVE is entirely fallacious. The Hebrews didn't have vowels, so you're little theory about inventing a code word is entirely...what's the word...insane? Secondly, "Eve" is an English rendering, Latin would not have pronounced IEVE as anything except yehweh, which automatically nils any sort of argument that you have there.

And it's not the prime word for woman, since woman was already used in Genesis before Eve was given the name :rolling:. And the reason Moses wasn't circumcised was because it wasn't mandatory in Egypt. Remember, all the others had to get circumcised also.

Toto · 03-14-2005, 01:19 PM

Clivedurdle -

Your first link is to a thoroughly unpleasant source, although you might not be aware of who Oliver P. Revilo is.

I added the link to your second and made it a quote, for clarity/copyright issues.

But that post seems to have been cribbed from here or possibly here - Channeled Info from the Ascended Masters. (One of these probably represents the dead link.)

I would request that posts in this forum rely on scholarship, literary analysis, history, archeology, linguistics, etc., and avoid pseudo-linguistics or channeled information from imaginary beings. OK? There's another place for that.

Toto

Anat · 03-14-2005, 02:35 PM

Don't forget that Eve's Hebrew name is XWH, not HWH. The het is part of the root, it can't just be done away with. And though the biblical explanation relates it to XY - living, the name may also be related to hiwya (with a het), which means snake both in Aramaic and Arabic.

Anyway, the best candidate for a mother-earth type chief fertility goddess in levant religions is Asherah and her equivalents, and we have inscriptional as well as biblical evidence for at least traces of an Asherah cult in Israel in monarchic times, so I'm not sure there is need to introduce yet another suppressed chief goddess figure.

If I understand correctly, the name YHWH could have been imported from some southern nomadic tribes, and basically used to substitute for Baal in myths imported from an earlier Canaanite culture? Did those tribes have other known deities? Any female ones?

Sheshbazzar · 03-14-2005, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Weimer

Not that I personally believe it, as I haven't done enough with Hebrew to make a valid conjecture, but HWH seems to be a good candidate for the second form of Yahweh, since it is Eve, the mother of all living things.

Not being sure whether Chris, (or the readers of this forum, who are not all well acquainted with Hebrew) is aware that there is a difference in the first letter that he rendered as an H in the "HWH", is not a phonetic equivalent to our English letter H at all, but is the Hebrew letter "cheth" pronounced as the "ch" in "Loch" (better recalled and represented by "kh" in English)
The word "HWH" or "Ch-W-H" (Kh-w-H) is a single word in the Hebrew language (see Strong's 2331) and there are no known instances of the particles "W-H" being used separately to express a word or idea.
An interesting exercise is to look up those three letter Hebrew words that use "WH" as their second and third letters.

Such as; "A-W-H", Strong's #183-5
"G-W-H",...............1465-7
"H-W-H",...............1933
"T-W-H",...............2901

"K-W-H",...............3554
"L-W-H",...............3867
"O-W-H",...............5753-5
These are a few examples, each are complete words from which the "WH" elements may not be broken out or inferred to mean anything apart from what the complete word means, which indicates that there is not much of a valid case for doing so with the word for "Eve".
So this example does not meet even the first (#1.) of the 4 criteria which I listed.

spin · 03-14-2005, 05:19 PM

I had to know what the cheezy grin was for.

+WH means "spin"

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03-14-2005, 12:05 PM	#96
Chris Weimer Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: none Posts: 9,879	Maybe I shouldn't have fueled you. No, no, and well...erm...no. First, the first website is a Catholic conspiracy website, everything it says is instantly discredited because of its a priori position. The second website doesn't work. Where do you get the "universe ending" thing? I can't find it. As for representation of YHWH into Latin it being IEVE is entirely fallacious. The Hebrews didn't have vowels, so you're little theory about inventing a code word is entirely...what's the word...insane? Secondly, "Eve" is an English rendering, Latin would not have pronounced IEVE as anything except yehweh, which automatically nils any sort of argument that you have there. And it's not the prime word for woman, since woman was already used in Genesis before Eve was given the name :rolling:. And the reason Moses wasn't circumcised was because it wasn't mandatory in Egypt. Remember, all the others had to get circumcised also.

03-14-2005, 01:19 PM	#97
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	Clivedurdle - Your first link is to a thoroughly unpleasant source, although you might not be aware of who Oliver P. Revilo is. I added the link to your second and made it a quote, for clarity/copyright issues. But that post seems to have been cribbed from here or possibly here - Channeled Info from the Ascended Masters. (One of these probably represents the dead link.) I would request that posts in this forum rely on scholarship, literary analysis, history, archeology, linguistics, etc., and avoid pseudo-linguistics or channeled information from imaginary beings. OK? There's another place for that. Toto

03-14-2005, 02:35 PM	#98
Anat Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: home Posts: 3,715	Don't forget that Eve's Hebrew name is XWH, not HWH. The het is part of the root, it can't just be done away with. And though the biblical explanation relates it to XY - living, the name may also be related to hiwya (with a het), which means snake both in Aramaic and Arabic. Anyway, the best candidate for a mother-earth type chief fertility goddess in levant religions is Asherah and her equivalents, and we have inscriptional as well as biblical evidence for at least traces of an Asherah cult in Israel in monarchic times, so I'm not sure there is need to introduce yet another suppressed chief goddess figure. If I understand correctly, the name YHWH could have been imported from some southern nomadic tribes, and basically used to substitute for Baal in myths imported from an earlier Canaanite culture? Did those tribes have other known deities? Any female ones?

03-14-2005, 05:19 PM	#100
spin Contributor Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: nowhere Posts: 15,747	I had to know what the cheezy grin was for. +WH means "spin"

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