gaillardia

I substitute teach in our local schools, frequently in elementary. During the PE class today, a very nice 11 year old girl began spontaneously to tell me that she was praying at church for her mom and stepdad to quit smoking and drinking. Kids say spontaneous stuff about their lives all the time. I got the impression the drinking was excessive. Anyway, at this point some commotion interrupted the conversation, but this leads to a question. I admire the girl's primary motivation, to get her parents to stop some destructive behaviors. However, in the event she said something like "Do you pray for your parents?" or "Who do you pray for?" or "I wonder if it will work." what would be an appropriate way to respond? Believe me, those questions, or ones like them, could arise easily in the situation I described, or a similar one. The obvious, and direct, answer is "I don't believe in God, so I don't pray." Analagous to Santa Claus, I don't believe kids of this age are too young to start thinking for themselves about the existence of God(s). The conversation could easily then progress to "I don't have any good evidence to believe." I don't want to be dishonest, and just blowing off a pointed question would be, it seems, unnecessarily rude. I guess factors to consider are 1) the kid's potential mental shock, pertaining to the continued pursuit of the admirable goal 2) her parents' outrage on learning what the substitute teacher said 3) bringing the debate out into the open, re: the Pledge (under God), teaching Bible in the schools, ID in science class, etc. I live in north GA, have a biology degree, get along well with the kids, substitute teaching pays about $6.80/hr here. What should I do/say if such a scenario finished developing, and what factors should I consider other than/in addition to those I mentioned? Admire in general the effort, intellect, and kindness in this forum, and thanks in advance for your input.

fromdownunder

Coming from a long way away, I would have thought that talking about a lack of belief and going into any detail about it would be in contravention of US laws regarding the separation of Church and State, and that you would be on risky ground trying to go there, eg potential reprimand, job loss.

Norm

gaillardia

hmm, hadn't thought about that. This state is contemplating passing laws mandating teaching the Bible in "literature" classes, and also, I believe, ID in science. Don't know what the current state of those proposals is. In the event of passage, would that change the consideration of CSS?

Biff the unclean

As an employee of the government it's not up to you to express any religious stand.

LoneWolf

I sympathize with your situation gaillardia, but you would be treading on some dangerous ground to get into such a discussion. Yes, you may feel it is rude to end the conversation but are you willing to lose your job over it? Only you can answer that question. You MAY be safe in saying you don't believe in God if asked but you would definitely be crossing the line if you started presenting an argument FOR atheism.

Yeah, it sucks. But that is the way it is. It may sound rude but maybe the smartest thing you can do is to say nicely "I'm sorry, we aren't allowed to talk about that kind of stuff in school. It is against the rules."

I SOOOO could not be a teacher. Best wishes.

gaillardia

but it's not a religious stand, is it? It's a lack of such, really?

LoneWolf

You know, in some ways I can see the positive in such a law being passed. If they did that than they would be opening the doors for a FULL discussion of the Bible and ID. If I were a literature teacher and had to teach the Bible I would have so much fun :devil1: . The same would go with ID if I was a Biology teacher. If I HAD to teach it, I would teach them EVERYTHING about it. However, there are probably still enough fundie teachers out there to the point that the negative impact of such a law would outweigh the positive.

LoneWolf

You and I know that, but most believers just see atheism as another religion. And if those are the people who decide on whether you keep your job then you would be in trouble.

Rathpig

I can't speak specifically to your situation, but in general, the wise position would be to steer the converstation away from your lack of religious beliefs. Admit nothing and state nothing. Even if you are questioned directly by a student, admitting you are an atheist would have only a negative result.

In the specific situation you mentioned the young girl, obviously under a churches indoctrination against her parents, would take your conversation to the church which in turn would make a complaint of religious discrimination to the school.

Your call, but I would urge silence in school on all religious matters especially telling a student in North Georgia you are an atheist when she has admitted to you the church has a greater influence in her life than her parents.

R.,

sea star

I work in a middle school, but NOT in the bible belt.

There is a difference between stating your beliefs and proselytizing, but it might be hard to see where the line is. It's the latter that is not permitted in public schools.

However, to answer your hypothetical questions, I would be truthful about whether I pray, and as for if it might work, I would just express generic support for the student, or refer her to the school counselor, if there is one.

More importantly, as an educator you are required to report suspected child abuse/neglect. If you get the impression from what the student told you that she is abused or even neglected, you need to inform the principal or Child Protective Services.