maxxmann

In the thread: Would you want God as a friend, Steve wrote: I am all for common ground too and like Steve I have beliefs, reasons, etc that make me who I am and what I am about. My question is, how can theists and atheists find common ground to stand on, when their lines are drawn in such a way that each feels they cannot cross?

reddhedd

Theists are welcome to visit my world...with no preaching or haranguing. I feel absolutely no need to save you from yourself.
Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to be a two way street.
Still, we can try, at least as a thought experiment.
Air...good to breathe, and I prefer it clean. You?
Water... not so good to breathe, but nice for bathing, swimming, drinking, cooking.
Food. I like it, I cook it, I eat it. Probably you do, too.
Um...kids. I love mine. I assume you (theists) love yours.
Ah, here we go...a possible bone of contention.
Do you have a problem with the godless way I raise my kids? Do you feel that I shouldn't expect obedience from them, since I don't believe in or obey a deity? Do you believe I, as an atheist, shouldn't be allowed to procreate, or raise or adopt kids? Do you think I have no way to teach them right from wrong?
All of these things, I've heard from theists. And therein lies the rub.

See, as long as we keep it superficial, we're probably fine...but as soon as something comes up that theists feel an atheist can only do wrong, they feel justified in telling me all about it. I had theists tell me that the only reason I had any chore issues with my son (age 11 at the time) was because I don't pray at them, or discipline with godly righteousness. ;o)

So, I guess, we can fnd common ground, as long as theists don't think their particular ground is the only one to stand on, or assume I really want to be in their yard, I just won't admit it.
Me? I'm happy for you to live your own life. Are you happy for me to live mine?

Steve Schlicht

The only line is that of disbelief/belief in God(s)ess(es).

Atheists and theists can find common ground on any one of a number of other qualities and life issues to include moral/ethical decisions.

This particular discussion forum topic (General Religious Discussions) deals specifically with religious claims.

That said, maxxmann, you probably will not establish "common ground" due to this specific topic identifier in this particular location.

You like baseball?



Steve

maxxmann

I understand what you mean, I hear things similiar to this all the time and it rubs me too. However, not all theists are of like mind(how 'bout that for an understatement)so not all of us will approach you in like manner.
I understand what you mean, but aren't you placing similiar demands on thesits by saying they shouldn't cross a particular line? Is there a way to reconcile this on either side? I really don't have an answer to this, so I am open to any and all viewpoints. Some people make "common ground" sound so easy. I am not sure.
Thanks and yes.
peace

maxxmann

Okay, thats fair. Gotta scenario. Say you are working t bring relief after a hurricane, something both of us have done. You are along side an individual you don't know and they begin telling people that they "will pray for them" or that "god will care for them." How would you respond in that situation?
Yes, I do, though I don't get to enjoy it much.

Steve Schlicht

I actually came across that a few times in the aftermath of Katrina. At times I would also see basic supply items with bibles attached/included in them.

My view is that people can say anything they want to in such a scenario and I've been known to offer a polite refutation or two in the midst of such encounters.

Here is a link to an interesting thread on this very topic and how I've addressed the issue:

Christians: What's the use of "praying for someone"?

From the link:

What is your view on how I approached this interaction?


Same here!

Tah dah...common ground.



To offer you a scenario, I am a known vocal atheist who is also a veteran police officer, humanist and social activist...would you allow me to provide comfort and care to you and your loved ones when in need?

In a church setting, would you publically refute the notion that atheists and/or secular humanists are immoral and deplorable people out to destroy the fabric of decent society?

Would you vote for me if I seek public office?

Steve

reddhedd

You're right; not all theists think or care how I raise my kids...or whatever. Or, at least they are willing to keep their thoughts to themselves.

I certainly didn't mean to imply that all theists are arrogant about their faith being the only road to happiness and family values...but those are the ones who make themselves noticed!

Crossing a line...hmmm. Is it wrong to have boundaries? I rarely allow my children crap candy, while "you" (for example only!) allow your kids to eat Snickers for breakfast, Milky Ways for lunch and Almond Joys for dinner. I refrain from mentioning that, IMO, you are poisoning your children, and setting them up for a lifetime of health issues, and you refrain from commenting on my poor kids not having childhoods, and no joy in thier lives, while I set them up for a host of binge candy eating as adults.

This is a line, a boundary. If I ask your advice....then yes, you may cross it. If not, then STFU about it. Same goes for me. It's the unasked for advice the unsolicited commentary that rubs me the wrong way. Perhaps our common ground will be the soccer games, or the crap TV the kids seem to enjoy....and food is off limits. In order to maintain a civil relationship, even if we can't be close friends, that's what we do.

I know you gave that scenario to Steve, but the first thing that popped into my head is, while the other person is praying " I'll be helping you find a pair of shoes to fit". Go ahead, pray; I'm willing to actually do the practical stuff.

maxxmann

That's cool. I have to admit that it bothers me sometimes, when people put Bibles and stuff in "relief Packages." I am not against it in its entireity, but I am the one to ask more times than not, "can't we just give them water." Hmmm, didn't I read that somewhere?

I think you handled it quite well and as far as the man who prayed for you in that way, well, it might have done him some good.


I am a Yankees fan. Please don't tell me Boston, because then there's no hope!!!

Without a doubt, because I sense in that setting, you would be respectful and seek to meet the human need or crises of the moment.

I was a Pastor for over 10 years(in an evangelical setting) and made it a point to help people focus on their own reponse to life and its issues rather than pointing out others faults. I mean, I am sure somewhere along the way I said some stupid things, but if I did, it was short lived and corrected.

If I felt our political views were close, then your atheism would not be an issue.

Steve

funinspace

Baaah…feed the sheep
Sounds like that there is much in common and just some philosophical disagreements then. With this type of view, I see little or nothing to quibble with. I'm good. Though baseball is quite boring to watch.

Steve Schlicht

Well, kudos, because more often than not I stated the same thing as well.

More common ground?



No way for us to know really. The greater good, in my view, is found in practical terms (as Rhea readily pointed out) and in real action.



No hope at all...y'all can keep Johnny Demon by the way, looks like Jesus, throws like Mary.



Very good.

Would that have been your first assumption knowing only that I was an atheist or did you come to this conclusion after questioning my credentials as a human being.

The only reason I ask is that we both have notions about how atheists and theists perceive each other...the question is...are you and I the rule or the exception.

We're all human. Religious claims appear to be the only nuance that is superfluous, in my view.

That's nice.

I'll ask again:

I honestly await a more direct answer to the inquiry posed.

Fair enough.

Here is a recent study that you might find interesting:

Atheists most distrusted

What political views do you think I have just knowing I'm an atheist?

Steve