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Old 06-20-2008, 08:04 AM   #51
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The thing is that I really learned something from my exchange with Reason. I had always just looked at this passage as a kind of general exhortation to remain faithful to one's intuition, one's spirit. But now I see we have here total pwnage: Christ totally turns the tables on his accusers, making it absolutely irrefutable that in accusing him of witchcraft, it is they who are guilty of blaspheming the Spirit. It may be difficult for some to understand what a hammer blow this is. It is important to recognize that the accusers here consider themselves to be the pure of the pure, absolutely in tune with the Spirit. And here comes this guy and completely strips them of their self-righteousness. Their ears are still ringing over this.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:20 AM   #52
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The thing is that I really learned something from my exchange with Reason. I had always just looked at this passage as a kind of general exhortation to remain faithful to one's intuition, one's spirit. But now I see we have here total pownage: Christ totally turns the tables on his accusers, making it absolutely irrefutable that in accusing him of witchcraft, it is they who are guilty of blaspheming the Spirit. It may be difficult for some to understand what a hammer blow this is. It is important to recognize that the accusers here consider themselves to be the pure of the pure, absolutely in tune with the Spirit. And here comes this guy and completely strips them of their self-righteousness. Their ears are still ringing over this.
Awww, shucks! (toes carpet, looks embarrassed)

Seriously, when I was a "believer," I--like many others--struggled and "worried" over the "unforgivable sin" propaganda foisted off as "truth." As stated in another post, I eventually understood that the preachers were full of it and only trying to engender more FUD to strengthen their control. Exposing this lie and myriad others eventually led me to denounce xtianity as a myth with no more credibility than Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny. None of them exist--unlike the dragon in my garage.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:45 AM   #53
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It's perfectly understandable that people who have been fucked over by a rotten system should turn against it with all possible fury. But if you can master the fury you can dig into the root of the system to find the true value that it has parasitized. And the best way to destroy the system is to take from it that valuable root, claiming it for yourself. The great thing is that that is exactly what Christ constantly does in his war against the system. Christian religion is really just an end-game, an attempt to conceal the fact that Christ's words have made untenable all attempts to restrict the free development of the human spirit.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:58 AM   #54
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It's perfectly understandable that people who have been fucked over by a rotten system should turn against it with all possible fury. But if you can master the fury you can dig into the root of the system to find the true value that it has parasitized. And the best way to destroy the system is to take from it that valuable root, claiming it for yourself. The great thing is that that is exactly what Christ constantly does in his war against the system. Christian religion is really just an end-game, an attempt to conceal the fact that Christ's words have made untenable all attempts to restrict the free development of the human spirit.
Although that seems good in principle, the harsh truth is that there is no root to find, just an empty hole. Trust me, many of us have dug and looked diligently.

I wish to destroy no man's faith inasmuch as it gives him comfort, peace, and inspiration. My beef is with the godmongers who seem to reverse-apply Mathew 11:12, "And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."

All men are free to believe what they will and pray to whom/what they will. Just do not force it on others to their harm (e.g., allow children to die from curable diseases while you pray for them in lieu of seeking medical treatment; giving your beliefs the force of law a la anti-abortion and anti-stem cell research laws; etc.), or seek and secure special favor from society (making church property tax exempt, special accommodation for religious practices in the workplace, etc.), and leave me and mine the hell alone.
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:20 AM   #55
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For myself, I want to take up the battle against the system using the tools given to us by the great rebel geniuses: Socrates, Christ and Spinoza. It's only a matter of time until we succeed in creating an autonomous cultural zone where those who choose to do so can live free from the system.
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Old 06-21-2008, 07:49 AM   #56
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It's perfectly understandable that people who have been fucked over by a rotten system should turn against it with all possible fury. But if you can master the fury you can dig into the root of the system to find the true value that it has parasitized. And the best way to destroy the system is to take from it that valuable root, claiming it for yourself. The great thing is that that is exactly what Christ constantly does in his war against the system. Christian religion is really just an end-game, an attempt to conceal the fact that Christ's words have made untenable all attempts to restrict the free development of the human spirit.
Although that seems good in principle, the harsh truth is that there is no root to find, just an empty hole. Trust me, many of us have dug and looked diligently.
I would go along with Reason here. Going back to my original post, as I was growing up I was given an interpretation of Jesus and his career. It is passages such as the one I quoted in the OP that led me to conclude that this interpretation was totally false.Jesus was not what I had always been told he was. Since then I have come across other interpretations--and as we know, there are many of them--and I have yet to find one that I thought had any validity. No Robots is hinting at another one here: that Jesus was at war with the system. I'm not convinced of that,either. At this point, I will remain unconvinced of any interpretation of the man and his career, because as far as I'm concerned we don't have nearly enough information about him to decide on anything with reasonable certainty.
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