TomJoe

Ahh, kindgergarten. Some of the best years of my life.

rigorist

Aahh, kids these days. No sense of history.

I'll bet they never had to dig through the import bins to find albums. "Import? What's that?"

Doncha know Boys Don't Cry was released by a different band named the Cure. Or something like that.

flesh99

Easy Cure was the demo name for the band, and they released on album as The Glove, but after already releasing under The Cure.

rigorist

/me bows before Flesh99.5 Farenheit Degrees' Cure knowledge!

seebs

Okay. Why?

Let's imagine, if you will, an alternate history, in which instead of going to Erwin with it, you asked the question "how could someone on staff be this upset with flesh99", and tried to make peace between 'em?

It's not easy, certainly. Flesh99's got all the charm of a buzzsaw, and a very legitimate beef with whoevere's bashing him.

But imagine that, say, this were taken as an opportunity for reconciliation, a chance for these people to talk about their issues and resolve 'em.

Is it entirely unthinkable that the results might have been better?

This isn't just a ministry for the users, you know; it's a ministry for the staff, too. When the staff are having problems, trying to work on those problems is better than kicking 'em off staff. Sometimes, we see the false dichotomy; just let it be a problem, or kick the person off staff.

I think there are some cases where it's really time for someone to go... But that's when we're looking at, say, a pattern of regular abuses despite multiple attempts to get things to improve.

I don't see a pattern of regular abuse in what E-beth said. I see her raising a serious concern. Her concern is valid; there's a strong correlation between flesh99's presence and a serious problem of legalism among some staff.

Now, we can address that legitimate concern, or we can quickly kick her out before she points out any more red-headed stepchildren.

Turns out, if we look at it, there's a real issue, which is that flesh99 has a very interesting combination of traits. He's smart, and he's making a real effort to be honest about his biases and address them, and he understands rules really well. And the thing is, a lot of staff, maybe, don't have quite that level of clarity on how rules work.

So we end up with a lot of people trying to be more like flesh99, only what they end up doing is being legalistic assholes. Which is a far cry from a pedantic guy with all the charm of a buzzsaw.

Is it his fault? No. He's trying to get people to follow the rules consistently and fairly. It's just that some people have a hard time with the subtleties of the rules, and tend to see "consistently enforced" and "being a real hardass about everything" as interchangable.

So, flesh99 actually made some things a lot worse... By setting a good example of a kind that not everyone was qualified to follow.

Okay, sure, he's not always all that great. He's got a bit of a temper, and sometimes the legalism gets the best of him. But... He can be a pretty decent moderator, even a very good one. But some people trying to imitate him end up being downright horrific mods.

Good example, I think, of a stumbling block in the classic way; someone who can do something that other people probably shouldn't try to imitate.

But hey, why have that conversation, why look into the ways we could fix the things that left a senior staff member exasperated and angry enough to go off on him like that, when we could just blow the squeaky wheel off with half a kilo of C4?

Kassiana

Okay, I didn't want to have to do this. But with all this angsty whiny lyric-fest going on here, I figure ALL of you deserve a

Boot to the Head!
--The Frantics

Yi yi yai yi....

People talking in movie shows,
People smoking in bed!
People voting Republican,
Give them a boot to the head!

Boot to the Head! Yah, yah...
Boot to the Head! Yah, yah...
Boot to the Head! Yah, yah...
Boot to the Head! Yah yah yah.. yah. yah yah yah...

Mechanics who can't fix a car,
Politicians who can't think!
The salesman who won't leave me alone,
The waiter who forgot my drink!

(Refrain)
Boot to the head! Yah, yah..
Boot to the head! Yah, yah..
Boot to the head! Yah, yah..
BOOT TO THE HEAD!!

elanor

Without kindness, reconciliation, and a welcome back into community, how is a forgiven person supposed to know he or she is truly forgiven?

Blaster

Great point that some seem to be missing completely. It needs to be verbalized. But, It seems that some are unwilling to say so or even do so.

Annabel Lee

They will not know.

And in many cases they are not truly forgiven anyway. That false "I forgive you." is too often just a hollow Christian mantra. It means absolutely nothing.

Real forgiveness is unmistakable.

Chi_Cygni

Flame Deleted

That was not a flame.

<flame removed>

I never went at him both barrels blazing. In fact I asked if he could inform me why I was banned and I did it with lots of pleases and the like.

And I could not question him further on CF as he banned the accounts without having the decency to reply.