Andykiwi

There is a very different focus in the teachings of "Jesus" and the teachings of Paul.
The evangelical "Christians" have chosen to go with the teachings of Paul primarily, with a dose of Revelation style judgement thrown in.

sweetpea7

This fits nicely with the point of my thread about Christians and the Bible. Sadly, many Christians do not even know what Jesus taught. They just know what their preacher at their business/megachurch tells them. Name it and claim it! and other bullshit. I wonder how many 'Christians' there would be today if martyrdom was still common. Christians in America whine about being persecuted, I wonder how many of them would hold to their faith if they faced being fed to lions, or realized that being rich is antithetical to the teachings of Jesus.

Zenaphobe

They ignore his teachings because they are in essence "Paulists".

Faith in an atonement that gives you a free pass into heaven is a lot different than, "He who saves his life will lose it, and he who loses his life shall save it".

How could Christianity have survived this long if its followers really took the Gospel teachings about giving up everything to follow Jesus seriously? Self preservation is a stronger influence than the teachings of Jesus.

Von Bek

But Paul commands Christians to obey earthly rulers because they were placed there by god; and he was writing in the context of the Roman Empire!

Andykiwi

Yes, and your point about that is..?

Joan of Bark

Jesus / God is not a teacher, but rather a weapon to be used for church leaders of all stripes. Jesus / God is used to prop up pre-existing beliefs among evangelicals and others. By giving a political opinion and claiming oneself as a follower of Jesus, a church 'shepherd' is essentially saying that his / her opinion is actually an absolute fact. To deny their view is to deny God!

Doug Shaver

No surprise, if those happen to be your values, too.

No Robots

Years ago, there was a powerful Christian component to the socialist movement; whereas now the Left is generally anti-Christian, with skeptics mocking and attacking any and all Christians. That the Left is also taking some big shit-kickings now is not a surprise. In order to effectively confront the Right, Christian Leftists have to reclaim control over their own movement, and that means taking on the anti-Christians within the Left.

Jane H

There is a definite pond difference here. The evangelical churches in the UK tend to be pretty hot on all sorts of social action. For example, when I reminded our lot today in the context of Fairtrade fortnight about their responsibilities to buy FT, it was taken as read that this was an integral part of the Gospel message. (That's not to say that 'outreach' isn't a minor subtext, though!)


How to translate Christ's social values to the modern day is a challenging question. An itinerant C1 Jewish teacher isn't the clearest model for C21 governance. The early Jerusalem church in Acts practised extreme communality, but the Greek churches were allowed such wide variations in financial status that Paul felt the need to have a go at them.




There's really no difference in the content between Paul and Jesus, simply the emphasis given, which comes from the context.

Paul made the Diaspora churches engage in a financial collection for the Jerusalem church, which was suffering at the time. He was very comfortable with the idea of Christians existing in poverty, and he saw faith only as the starting point to a life doing good .

In all the NT, Christians are definitely required to have a “whatever” attitude to possessions, and an instinctive wish to share with others.

PhilosopherJay

Hi Doug,

Good point. Putting a "Good" Jesus against the evangelicals "Bad" Jesus is a losing proposition. Their ideas and behavior mimic the outrageous ideas and behavior of Jesus and his followers more than the Jesus-as-Socrates preachers.

Christianity teaches people to be like Jesus, but the Jesus character in the bible is insane, For example, here's a description of his 70 or so sayings from the Gospel of Mark:

1. Defends his actions (baptism, begging, casting out demons, eating with prostitutes and tax collectors) and the actions of his followers against numerous charges of breaking Jewish Laws. He does not acknowledge that his actions could be disturbing to others.
2. Attacks all Jewish authority figures. Priests, Pharisees and Scribes as hypocrites. Scribes “rob from the widows.”
3. Preaches self violence (If your eye offends, tear it out…)
4. Believes in unlimited power based on the will (volunteerism) (whatever you pray for you will receive). You can control God’s actions. If you forgive others, God will forgive you.
5. Apocalypse with wars and natural disasters coming soon before an eternal Kingdom of God
6. Followers and himself will be unbelievably rich in the Kingdom of God
7. Parables generally indicate the Jewish God has a special hatred for the Jewish people.
8. Calls for laying of hands on children (Pedophilia?) and being trusting like children (desire to return to imaginary idealized, conflictless childhood state)
9. Money-changers (bankers) are robbers.
10. Own followers are untrustworthy and his father, God, has ordained him as a sacrifice to save all mankind.

Christianity teaches one to be like Jesus, however the character of Jesus is paranoid and delusional. It teaches a metaphysical world view which is incompatible with a scientific and humanistic social outlook.

Warmly,

Philosopher Jay