Clivedurdle

Where do you get that from? Volcanic fumes were deliberately used to create ecstatic prophetic states!

Clivedurdle

http://geology.geoscienceworld.org/c...ract/34/10/821

JohnG

Thanks Toto for the welcome. I checked out the links you posted and did some quick reading about John Allegro. I can understand why he was widely criticized with such bold statements - but I would like to read his book to gain some insight in this perspective.

I think the use of cannabis differs greatly from the use of psilocybens in terms of having powerful visions and such, and as I mentioned in the OP, the early Christians behaviour in the face of horrible death would be more likely from stronger drugs than cannabis.

I was thinking today about the youth movement in the 60's as a backlash to the Vietnam war, the use of narcotics as an escape, the peace and love advocacy and thinking comparitively about the early Christian movement. Possibly as a backlash to the Roman advance, the philosophies of peace and love, and how the use of narcotics would fit into that scenario as well.

Those types of cultural movements may be a reccuring theme by young people in similar situations.

When thinking about the possibility of narcotics having such an influence on Christianity, it's bizzarre to compare that with the stereotypical ultra-conservative mindset of the modern Christian. However, that IS just a steroetype, apparently there are oodles of religious fundamentalists and moderates (of all religions) that use narcotics as a path to spiritual "enlightenment".

Does anyone here have anuy information of the use of hallucinogens in the middle east during the first century? (Not necessarily religious use, but just in general)

mountainman

We dont have much evidence for the activities of early christians
before the fourth century, when the evidence becomes secure.
Prior to this time, custodial lineages of ascetic priest and attendants
staffed the "Healing Temples" in the ROman empire, since c.500 BCE.
Specifically the cult of Asclepius/Imhotep was widespread and has
abundant secure archaeological footprints.

These people - the staff of these temples - were physicians in the
lineage of Pythagoras, Hippocrates, Galen, etc, and they stocked
and dispensed -- obviously -- all manner of drugs, hallucinogens
included. The medical practice of today does the same. The symbol
of the staff of Asclepius is on many medical letterheads.

There are various verses of ancient text you can glean from
review of the articles referenced by Toto and others above.
One that is often quoted in reference to this issue is:

The Nag Hammadi text 6.1 - the acts of peter and the 12 apostles,
which I refer to as TAOPATTA since I think it was written by an ascetic priest
who may be identified by his/her anti-christian polemic.
Here we find the verses:

91 As we discussed the robbers on the road, whom we evaded, behold Lithargoel, having changed, came out to us.

92 He had the appearance of a physician, since an unguent box was under his arm, and a young disciple was following him carrying a pouch full of medicine.

93 We did not recognize him

People have often asked:
What was in the medicine pouch?
What was in the unguent box?

Best wishes,


Pete Brown

Toto

Persephone's Quest: Entheogens and the Origins of Religion can be browsed on Google books.

I think that the primary mind altering drug in use was wine.

Ben C Smith

It seems to me that some of the prophetic and visionary activity that took place amongst early Christians (and, for that matter, amongst Jews) was helped along by two influences that are known to affect human perception and behavior:

1. Music (see 1 Samuel 16.16 and especially 2 Kings 3.15).
2. Fasting (see Acts 13.2).

Ben.

aa5874

And sleeping. Don't forget the dreams.

JohnG

Thanks Ben. Music definitly has a powerful emotional effect on the psyche, and fasting has produced visions for NA cultures (if I remember correctly)

I have to admit, I am a non-theist with Jewish ancestory but when I hear "Rivers of Babylon" I get a chill. er... not the Bony M version though.

I think music is the cornerstone of the church, using it to promote unity and belief.

I am still curious (as the Romans were) about the behaviour of Christian sacrifices in the arena. Apparently it was enough to convert people. You mentioned some of the influence was caused by the music and fasting. I think here they get into something "heavier". I would like to think that some early Christian was able to sneak in and heavily sedate a young girl before the Romans had her slaughtered.

Toto

I don't think that the influence of the martyrs was the primary motive for conversion. But martyrdom probably did excite curiosity, even if it was a lot less than later Christians claimed.

DCHindley

I thought R Gordon Wasson identified the sacred drink Haoma (Iran) = Soma (India) with the hallucinogen Amanita Muscaria (the red capped mushroom with the white speckles). See his _Soma: Divine Mushroom of Immortality_ (1969), which preceded John Allegro's _The Sacred Mushroom & the Cross_ (1970). Anywhere there are Birch and Conifer trees growing in proximity, there are Amanita mushrooms. Their use as an intoxicant is proposed among German berzerkers, Siberian and Finnish shamens, Vedic worshipers, etc.

Another good resource for the historical use of psychoactive drugs is The Vaults of Erowid:

http://www.erowid.org/plants/plants.shtml

Did Jews ever use drugs to attain heavenly visions or knowledge? Look at 4th Ezra (the Latin Apocalypse of Ezra):

14:37-48:

37 So I [Ezra] took the five men as he (the Most High) had commanded me, and we went forth [into the field] and remained there.
38 And it came to pass on the morrow that, lo! a voice called me, saying:
Ezra, open thy mouth and drink what I give thee to drink!
39 Then I opened my mouth, and lo! there was reached unto me a full cup, which was full as it were with water, but the colour of it was like fire.
40 And I took it and drank; and when I had drunk My heart poured forth understanding, wisdom grew in my breast, and my spirit retained its memory:
41 and my mouth opened, and was no more shut.
42 And the Most High gave understanding unto the five men, and they wrote what they were dictated in order, in characters which they knew not.
47 For in them is the spring of understanding, the fountain of wisdom, and the stream of knowledge.
48 And I did so ...

Tr. G. H. Box, APOT, vol 2

Soma was mushroom juice or a secondary form of it such as in urine (I'm not kidding), red or yellow in color. A lot of folks wave this away by saying something about water being symbolic of wisdom, like in tarot cards, but I have to wonder.

Drugs are not absolutely necessary to have a trance that takes one on weird journeys. The Jewish merkabah (throne) mystic traditions (best documented in the 6-10th centuries CE) used controlled breathing along with intense meditation and repitition of biblical passages. Traces of throne mysticism (more specifically tours of heavenly palaces - where else to find a throne?) can be found in the earliest parts of 1 Enoch (3rd century BCE).

DCH