gnosis92

lisa randall was asked about her beliefs about god, in addition to the discover magazine article

here's a link
http://education.guardian.co.uk/high...510700,00.html

here's a quote

"So to the biggest question of all. "You know, all the work I've done makes me think the existence of God less likely," she says. "I want solutions and God just seems like such a cop-out."

But if she ever does come across God? "You'll be the first to know. You could call that an exclusive."

since atheists are certain god does not exist, lisa must be an agnostic. an atheist would say she would never come across god, whereas an agnostic might be open to that possibility.

an atheist is 100% certain there is no god. an agnostic believes in a non-zero possibility there is a god

Splarnst

No, you are mistaken.

An atheist is anyone who doesn't believe god exists. A strong atheist believes that god doesn't exist whereas a weak atheist (often wrongly called agnostics) doesn't believe god exists. There is NOTHING to imply that a strong atheist is 100% certain. Some do claim certainty, but not all and probably not even most.

Smullyan-esque

No one is 100% certain of anything (except maybe cogito ergo sum. Maybe).

An "atheist" is just someone who doesn't think there is a god, for one reason or another. Perhaps they think (like myself) that the basic idea of a omnipotent being is logically impossible. Perhaps they have another reason.

An "agnostic" is someone who isn't sure. They aren't really convinced either way. You can't lump people into the "agnostic" category simply because you've managed to ferret out some smidgen of doubt.

Wiploc

I assume you don't say one has to be 100% certain to be a theist, so why would you say one has to be 100% certain to be a strong atheist? Theism and atheism are matters of belief, not of certainty. The theist believes god exists, and the atheist doesn't. Atheism can be divided into two categories, strong atheism and weak atheism. Strong atheists believe god doesn't exist, and weak atheists don't. Weak atheists (whom you call agnostics?) include all people who are neither theist nor strong atheist.

Your test of strong atheism, whether the person would come around if presented with persuasive evidence of god's existence, doesn't work. There are lots of us strong atheists (me included) who would believe in god if we were given good reason to. Lots of us (me not included) even wish there was a god. They want to be theists, but cannot rationally do so without a good reason.

crc

show_no_mercy

Agnosticism is a statement about knowledge whereas (a)theism is a statement about belief

gnosis92

personally i prefer the term non-theism

dettus

personally I like when people stop trying to redefine everything to fit into their preconceived notions. Apt terms already exist. Use them.

-belief does not imply certainty

-gnosticism is a question of knowledge and theism is a question of belief

Trisha666

I think this person got it right. Agnostics are waiting for proof, I would consider them undecided :huh:

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Jehanne

Most agnostics say that the existence of God is unknown and unknowable.

Wiploc

If you think show_no_mercy got it right, why are you taking the opposite position? To say that agnostics are undecided is to say they don't have belief, which is to say agnosticism is about belief rather than about knowledge.

crc