Freethought & Rationalism Archive

BDS · 01-31-2005, 08:54 AM

Truth is only found in dreams (i.e. unconsciousness).

Darth Dane · 01-31-2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BDS

Truth is only found in dreams (i.e. unconsciousness).

If you remember the dreams, they are in consciousness not unconsciousness right?

BDS · 01-31-2005, 09:04 AM

Actually, I just wrote it because I thought it sounded clever.

Once we remember the dreams, we distort the truth (maybe).

TheRealityOfMan · 01-31-2005, 09:41 AM

Science is a process and a discipline. For fundamentalist protestant/catholic/whatever X should perhaps be biblical exegesis not the bible itself.

Ojuice5001 · 01-31-2005, 10:03 AM

Although Freud got a lot of the details wrong, he did discover that there's a vast subconscious realm of thought. There wouldn't seem to be much truth in the thoughts of the subconscious, but there is some. This means that truth isn't found only in consciousness. So how much less can it be true that it's found only in that particular kind of consciousness exemplified by an experimenting scientist?

BDS · 01-31-2005, 01:31 PM

Despite the fact that I was trying to be clever, there's a grain of truth in my claim. Consciousness inevitably distorts "reality" (whatever that is). It is a prism through which we see the world, but just as a prism changes light by dividing and separating it, so does consciousness. This is one of the principles of modern philosophy.

I'm not knocking science, or conscious rational thought. They represent the only ways in which I am capable of approaching the "truth". But mystics take a different approach. To say that they are wrong because they are approaching reality from a different angle is like saying light is more "real" once it has passed through a prism. We rationalists think we c an find the truth by looking outward. The mystics think they can find it by looking inward. We are probably both wrong.

Jobar · 01-31-2005, 06:40 PM

I think a discussion of truth and consciousness is off topic here; interesting, though. One of you ought to start a new thread about it- I think that Darth is right on this one.

J-D · 02-02-2005, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heathen Dawn

“Truth is only found in X�?

Code:

If person = fundamentalistProtestantChristian
Then X = Bible
End If

If person = metaphysicalNaturalist
Then X = Science
End If

Sola scriptura, sola scientia, find the differences…

If you see no difference between the Bible and science, I'm not sure I can help you.

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01-31-2005, 08:54 AM	#11
BDS Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR, USA Posts: 3,187	Truth is only found in dreams (i.e. unconsciousness).

01-31-2005, 09:04 AM	#13
BDS Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR, USA Posts: 3,187	Actually, I just wrote it because I thought it sounded clever. Once we remember the dreams, we distort the truth (maybe).

01-31-2005, 09:41 AM	#14
TheRealityOfMan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Osaka / London Posts: 1,993	Science is a process and a discipline. For fundamentalist protestant/catholic/whatever X should perhaps be biblical exegesis not the bible itself.

01-31-2005, 10:03 AM	#15
Ojuice5001 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: A city in Florida that I love Posts: 3,416	Although Freud got a lot of the details wrong, he did discover that there's a vast subconscious realm of thought. There wouldn't seem to be much truth in the thoughts of the subconscious, but there is some. This means that truth isn't found only in consciousness. So how much less can it be true that it's found only in that particular kind of consciousness exemplified by an experimenting scientist?

01-31-2005, 01:31 PM	#16
BDS Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Eugene, OR, USA Posts: 3,187	Despite the fact that I was trying to be clever, there's a grain of truth in my claim. Consciousness inevitably distorts "reality" (whatever that is). It is a prism through which we see the world, but just as a prism changes light by dividing and separating it, so does consciousness. This is one of the principles of modern philosophy. I'm not knocking science, or conscious rational thought. They represent the only ways in which I am capable of approaching the "truth". But mystics take a different approach. To say that they are wrong because they are approaching reality from a different angle is like saying light is more "real" once it has passed through a prism. We rationalists think we c an find the truth by looking outward. The mystics think they can find it by looking inward. We are probably both wrong.

01-31-2005, 06:40 PM	#17
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	I think a discussion of truth and consciousness is off topic here; interesting, though. One of you ought to start a new thread about it- I think that Darth is right on this one.

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