Gawen

I have been hanging around this particular forum more than the others for some time now. It really is most fascinating. But I do have a few questions.

Has anyone written a book or website that lists the NT WITHOUT redactions and interpolations, etc, etc? In other words, where can I find the chapters/letters of the NT as it was alledgedly first written, leaving out later known added material? And then, has anyone debated just that?

The reason I ask is that I follow most threads here and I see people debating dates and passages and meanings and interpretations and whether Luke was a woman and all mannner of things. But I get the impression they debate entire chapters verbatim, when one really cannot debate this way. Mark says this (but said it this year-or between these years), Luke says that (and said it this year...but maybe later...but not earlier then this year), Acts backs up this person and not that one...etc.

When you remove all the later added material, what do you have left and what can one debate with/on?

capnkirk

Gawen,

I sympathize with your desire for such a consensus synopsis. Alas, that is much more easily said than done. Let me offer just one case in point. If all the redaction were removed from the synoptic gospels, what would remain would look a lot like "Q" (the earliest level 'Q1'). At least, that is what SOME scholars would insist; others would argue that Q didn't exist, and that GMark was written mostly from history, still others for some point in between...or maybe not "between" at all.

With wildly differing claims as to what verses are redaction, which books are outright fiction, whodiddit and when, how does one pick a standard? It would be more accurate to say that each of the published scholars (Crossan, Mack, Doherty, et al) have individually attempted to peel away all the layers and see into the core, and have each come to their own conclusions. The arguments here on this forum are our own attempts to compare the scholars' differing claims to see which we find most persuasive.

__________________
Enterprise...OUT.

Vinnie

Nestle-Aland????

Gawen

I see your point. By a consensus. Majority rules? And for argument sake and being generous, the most hotly contested verses/parts can be left in. There would still be a great deal left out.

There are people here in this forum, despite their differing claims and positions that could do just this. Consider it not unlike the Jesus Seminar. Call it the NT Seminar.

One other item that's been floating in my head. When people talk about a HJ or MJ, I think it would be a good thing to label their intent/belief. A HJ/MJ believer believes exactly what, before going on to post.

capnkirk

I will let them respond to this for themselves.

I agree with you wholehartedly on this one. There has been far too much time wasted on these threads because there is no agreement on the definitions of the terms being used. HJ/MJ is just one of them, but a particularly prominent one. For example, there are some here who consider Mack an HJer because he holds that "Q1" contains the sayings of a real person, while others consider him an MJer because he holds that Christ was a myth.

__________________
Enterprise...OUT.

CX

Are you suggesting that NA27 doesn't contain any interpolations or redactions?

Yuri Kuchinsky

Hi, Gawen,

Here you can see a couple of letters of Paul that have been reconstructed based on A. Loisy's analysis,

real Epistle to the Romans
http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/al1.htm

reconstruction of Paul's Epistle to the Philippians
http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/alph1.htm

They are available from here,

a different view of the New Testament history
http://www.trends.ca/~yuku/bbl/bbl.htm

Needless to say, the professional Pauline scholars, when offered these reconstructions, had absolutely nothing to say about them...

And, of course, you can take the whole of the Magdalene Gospel as the earliest available version of NT gospels.

the Magdalene Gospel (ms Pepys 2498) ~ translated by Yuri Kuchinsky
http://www.globalserve.net/~yuku/mgtext.htm

All the best,

Yuri

Gawen

Thanks Yuri...