Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 01-22-2013, 07:08 AM

So you take this:

Quote:

And yet why, O Gaius! did you think yourself in need of spurious honours, such as the temples and statues of the beings above-mentioned are often filled with? You ought rather to have imitated their virtues. Hercules purified both the earth and the sea, performing labours of the greatest possible importance and of the highest benefit to all mankind, in order to eradicate all that was mischievous and calculated to injure the nature of each of the elements ... But I suppose you imitated Hercules in your unwearied labours and your incessant displays of valour and virtue;

to mean that Philo was a polytheist? That he was capable of embracing a group called 'the Therapeutae' who were attached to a pagan divinity?

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

Quote:

So, Stephan, I bow to your superior intelligence, and gifted skill set, in acknowledging that you know far better than I, how to spell "therapeutai".

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

I was wrong about likening this debate to arguing with a monkey. A cat or a worm might be more appropriate.

mountainman · 01-22-2013, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

But in your case, I don't know what to think (correction I know exactly what to think but can't publish it here at the forum).

Be sure to let us all know if you start to publish garbage like this on your blog.

Quote:

The word therapeutai wasn't a 'brand name.'

In the Pagan Empire the therapeutae of Asclepius (and other gods who had temples) may be considered as the generic name of an extremely high profile ubiquitous class of people. Membership to this class of people brought with it special dispensations from the Roman Emperor, such as exemption from military service.

The word therapeutae collectively describes all those who served and attended the gods in all the pagan temples of the Pagan (not Jewish) empire. Has anyone estimated the number of people involved in the pagan temple cults in antiquity? The numbers must have been large.

Quote:

It was just a word to describe - in this case - an action that men could perform in relation to God and each other.

It may also be seen as a word to describe temple tenure. The word also takes in the hierarchy of the pagan priests and all their assistants and attendants at every temple throughout the Empire.

Quote:

The fact that there were therapeutai associated also with other gods - and even Christ - shouldn't imply that they were all part of one family.

Class. I have repeatedly used the word class of people, not family.

What is your evidence for any therapeutae associated with Christ?

Quote:

Yes they are all writers but they are not part of the same fucking organization. The same thing goes for 'therapeutai.'

Within the massive network of temples to Asclepius, the therapeutae of Asclepius were all part of the same fucking organization. Obviously the attendants at the temples of Cybele, Osiris, Isis, Sarapis, Minerva, Jupiter, Venus, Bacchus, Hercules, Vesta, Sol Invictus and other gods were not part of the same fucking organization as the Asclepius god

It seems that different organisations associated with the worship and imperial sponsorship of various pagan gods were collegiately related. Representatives from many of these pagan therapeutae were present within the "Sacred Assembly of Pagan pontifices" (in Alexandria for example, and othewr cities) that provided counsel to all the Roman Emperors in antiquity until that fateful emperor changed the ancient pagan traditions.

mountainman · 01-22-2013, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

So I am trying to understand the objections to the accepted understanding of the Therapeutae. Are there any objections to:

1. Philo being the author of the Vita Contemplativa?

Objections were noted some time back, and I note that you have remained silent on the EVIDENCE presented suggesting the possibility that Philo was not the author of VC. If Philo was not the author of VC then we have no attestation whatsoever for a Jewish sect of therapeutae in antiquity.

stephan huller · 01-22-2013, 08:41 AM

so by your amazingly perceptive logic ALL Therapeutae belong to the same cultus. all people so described are brothers

mountainman · 01-22-2013, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

An examination of Philo's "On the Contemplative Life" will show that he did NOT even mention the words "Jew" or "Jews" in reference to the Theraputae.

There is no mention whatsoever that the Theraputae were circumcised, practised circumcision or called themselves Jews.

By the way aa5874 thanks for your examination of and comments about the evidence in this thread.

stephan huller · 01-22-2013, 08:56 AM

oh well if you've lost aa and tanya you know that you've been defeated. scholars of the highest order. trained at the sorbonne and all

mountainman · 01-22-2013, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Read the damn account of Philo. Why shouldn't this be a debate about Philo and what is possible with Philo.

It would not serve your dogmatic position to admit that the damn account of Philo may not have been written by Philo.

Chili · 01-22-2013, 09:10 AM

Nice to read and I have nothing to add myself except to say that a hardon is hard for a reason, whatever that may be.

Chili · 01-22-2013, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

so by your amazingly perceptive logic ALL Therapeutae belong to the same cultus. all people so described are brothers

Like holy rollers of different mythologies in the same orgy set apart for them with distinction.

stephan huller · 01-22-2013, 09:22 AM

and your analysis Pete has everything to do with your study of the original Greek text. oh wait, you can't read Greek. then it must have something to do with your expertise with respect to Philo.. oh wait you've never read anything by him beyond a paragraph here or there. then maybe you are basing your judgement on the testimony of experts. no, no one has ever doubted Philonic authorship.

so what then? oh that's right. you're just making up shit just to ignore what Philo tells us because it shows Eusebius used first century texts. right

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01-22-2013, 08:41 AM	#284
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	so by your amazingly perceptive logic ALL Therapeutae belong to the same cultus. all people so described are brothers

01-22-2013, 08:56 AM	#286
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	oh well if you've lost aa and tanya you know that you've been defeated. scholars of the highest order. trained at the sorbonne and all

01-22-2013, 09:10 AM	#288
Chili Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Alberta Posts: 11,885	Nice to read and I have nothing to add myself except to say that a hardon is hard for a reason, whatever that may be.

01-22-2013, 09:22 AM	#290
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	and your analysis Pete has everything to do with your study of the original Greek text. oh wait, you can't read Greek. then it must have something to do with your expertise with respect to Philo.. oh wait you've never read anything by him beyond a paragraph here or there. then maybe you are basing your judgement on the testimony of experts. no, no one has ever doubted Philonic authorship. so what then? oh that's right. you're just making up shit just to ignore what Philo tells us because it shows Eusebius used first century texts. right

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