Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 08-31-2012, 01:43 AM

How the Mother God Got Spayed by April DeConick

Quote:

.... In the ancient world, the female body was believed to be subhuman, imperfect—a deficient body because it lacked the male genitalia. The male body was the perfect body. So the male body dominated the scene, including the Bible, Christian theology and Christian ecclesiology. In other words, the Bible came into being within a cultural matrix where the female body by definition was substandard and dehumanized. This dehumanization of the female body affected virtually every storyline of the Bible.

In some forms of early Christianity, women could be leaders of churches only when they remade themselves into “males.” This wasn’t perceived by them to be just a metaphor. This was real. We have records of women like Thecla and Mygonia who chopped off their hair and dressed as men in order to preach and baptize.¹ We have records of hermit women like Mary of Egypt who fasted to the point that their bodies stopped menstruating and pilgrims believed them to be holy men.² What a surprise when these women died and their bodies were revealed as female! Early Catholic Christians refused to allow women into the pulpit at all because of their obviously deficient yet seductive bodies.³ The second–third-century church father Tertullian explains that women have no recourse: They cannot transcend their naturally deficient and sexualized bodies through baptism, fasting or cross-dressing. Once a woman, always a woman, he says.⁴ This same kind of argument continues to be used by Catholic authorities to keep women out of the priesthood.

...

[1] April D. DeConick, Holy Misogyny (or via: amazon.co.uk) (New York: Continuum, 2011), p. 81.

[2] DeConick, Holy Misogyny, pp. 116–117.

[3] DeConick, Holy Misogyny, pp. 111–128.

[4] Tertullian, On the Veiling of Virgins 3–16.

DeConick writes that some early Christians did think that the Holy Spirit was female (the word in Hebrew is feminine) and was the actual mother of Jesus. But this was eradicated by religious authorities, much as goddess worship was eradicated from Judaism.

aeebee50 · 08-31-2012, 05:00 AM

Well, it is a man's world. Women make it go round. Yeah for women.

Cesc · 08-31-2012, 02:52 PM

Rabbinical Jewry kept this tradition from antiquity, parallel to Christianity, with the feminine Shekinah, the feminization of the masculine Biblical concept of Gods "glory" that dwells with the Israelites.

Toto · 08-31-2012, 03:45 PM

Another essay on the same topic

The Marginalization of Women: A Biblical Value We Don't Like to Talk About

Quote:

Some 2,000 years ago, a Hebrew sage named Ben Sira wrote "the birth of a daughter is a loss" and "better is the wickedness of a man than a woman who does good." Modern readers rightly label such words misogynistic. But they're part of the historical record and Ben Sira wasn't alone. From Mesopotamia to Egypt, women in the ancient world were considered property -- valuable property, but property nonetheless. And it's true of the Bible's view as well. Yes, there were biblical women who flourished in spite of the patriarchy, women like Ruth, Esther, Lydia and Priscilla. But women in the Bible were normally viewed as second class, if even that.

The Decalogue is a case in point. "You shall not covet your neighbor's house, you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male slave, his female slave, his ox, his donkey or anything which belongs to your neighbor" (Exodus 20:17; Deuteronomy 5:21). Because the Ten Commandments are so well known, it's quite easy to miss the assumptions in them about gender. But the marginalization of women is clear. The wife is classified as her husband's property, and so she's listed with the slaves and work-animals. There's also a striking omission in this commandment: never does it say "You shall not covet your neighbor's husband." The Ten Commandments were written to men, not women. There's even more evidence, linguistic in nature. Hebrew has four distinct forms of the word "you" and these are gender and number specific. The form of "you" in every single commandment is masculine singular. The text assumes its readers are men. True, mothers are mentioned in the Decalogue as deserving of honor, but even here the Hebrew grammar assumes a male readership: the Hebrew verb for "honor" is masculine singular (Exodus 20:12; Deuteronomy 5:16). The Ten Commandments embody much that is foundational for modern society, but egalitarian they aren't.

Bronzeage · 08-31-2012, 03:49 PM

I thought this was a Helen Gurley Brown obit thread.

stephan huller · 08-31-2012, 03:49 PM

Ugh. Women writing about women is God-awful. Women on women in certain situations is potentially interesting. But not when they are trying to obscure the fact that the inherent religious paradigm is without question developed from a closed patriarchal system for which women seem to be masochistically devoted to in greater numbers than men. Women keep even the most chauvinist religion alive.

No Robots · 08-31-2012, 03:55 PM

[T]he Gospels tell us about women’s substantial rights: owning homes, having use of their own property, having freedom of travel, worshipping in synagogues and the Jerusalem Temple, and so on. Women did not join Jesus because Judaism oppressed them, and the Jewish women who followed him did not cease to be Jews.--Amy-Jill Levine

Toto · 08-31-2012, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

... they are trying to obscure the fact that the inherent religious paradigm is without question developed from a closed patriarchal system for which women seem to be masochistically devoted to in greater numbers than men. Women keep even the most chauvinist religion alive.

Who is trying to obscure this? I thought that was the point.

stephan huller · 08-31-2012, 04:11 PM

The whole business about the presence of the eternal feminine at the beginning of Christianity.

outhouse · 08-31-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

DeConick writes that some early Christians did think that the Holy Spirit was female

This must have been a very very minor group, and with so little known of any early christians, are you giving any historicity to this?

Some Early israelites belived in unicorns, but is it worth mentioning?

Quote:

and was the actual mother of Jesus.

more sources for the origination of this info.

Quote:

much as goddess worship was eradicated from Judaism.

Asherah was redacted out of text as the queeen of heaven, and Yahweh's consort, as well as El's consort

this reminds me so much of all the different dieties worshipped today, per the vatican.

last I checked jesus was 6th on the list of where he ranks against other religious figures and who was worshipped the most

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08-31-2012, 05:00 AM	#2
aeebee50 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Texas Posts: 5,810	Well, it is a man's world. Women make it go round. Yeah for women.

08-31-2012, 02:52 PM	#3
Cesc Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Copenhagen, Denmark Posts: 322	Rabbinical Jewry kept this tradition from antiquity, parallel to Christianity, with the feminine Shekinah, the feminization of the masculine Biblical concept of Gods "glory" that dwells with the Israelites.

08-31-2012, 03:49 PM	#5
Bronzeage Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Deep South, USA Posts: 7,568	I thought this was a Helen Gurley Brown obit thread.

08-31-2012, 03:49 PM	#6
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Ugh. Women writing about women is God-awful. Women on women in certain situations is potentially interesting. But not when they are trying to obscure the fact that the inherent religious paradigm is without question developed from a closed patriarchal system for which women seem to be masochistically devoted to in greater numbers than men. Women keep even the most chauvinist religion alive.

08-31-2012, 03:55 PM	#7
No Robots Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Edmonton Posts: 5,679	[T]he Gospels tell us about women’s substantial rights: owning homes, having use of their own property, having freedom of travel, worshipping in synagogues and the Jerusalem Temple, and so on. Women did not join Jesus because Judaism oppressed them, and the Jewish women who followed him did not cease to be Jews.--Amy-Jill Levine

08-31-2012, 04:11 PM	#9
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	The whole business about the presence of the eternal feminine at the beginning of Christianity.

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