[email protected]

Again, it's not a threat. There is no "or else."How is this threatening? I'm not even sure what the correct reason to donate to charity is (is there only one?) I'm not clear on how donating to charity for the worst possible reason(s) would harm the giver.

I don't believe you have made a case for considering atheism as a kind of terrorism. Your entire argument seems to be that because you consider the implications of a universe without the Christian God as more frightening than one with Him it is reasonable to consider the denial of religion as a personal threat. But then absolutely everything might be terrorism--what if I believe that people wearing clothing were only doing so to conceal weapons because I have run into several who were concealing weapons under their clothing. Do you honestly think it would be reasonable for me to insist on walking around nude, forcing my children and encouraging others to do so as well, simply because I considered clothing to be a threat? If not, then why not? What if the belief is utterly genine and heartfelt?

[email protected]

I didn't mention kids at all, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Whether or not a parent believes the threat does not bear on the issue of whether it is terrorism. Whether or not it is widely viewed as terrorism sort of depends on what community you're polling. Would you prefer I use a synonym for terrorist, like freedom fighter?

The fact that you phrase it in the positive (Jesus can save you) does not change the nature of the threat at all. It just makes it a little harder to recognize as a threat.

naturalist.atheist

It is more than that. The god intermediaries want to control you as well.

It is odd. But I think it happens because they frighten people with an infinite threat that they can't demonstrate. People let it slide because it is just so nonsensical. But many humans are wired to avoid even an imaginary threat if they are frightened enough.

My question is why does a society allow people to frighten other people with an infinite threat that can't be demonstrated?

Bertsura

Well, if the version of Christianity is the one where people who don't believe are threatened with violence (after all, what could be more violent than eternal torture), then obviously, Christianity is a form of terrorism. If it's the wishy-washy moderate "I'll believe in anything if it's convenient" version of Christianity, then no, it's not terroristic, simpy idiotic.

BruceWane

Why would a person fear something that they are not going to experience? That's like being fearful just because there are human bodies - not your own - rotting in the ground

Sounds like your "point" has just become a moving target.........

I certainly have every right to say that a particular fear is irrational. Are you saying that there are no irrational fears?



Eh, no, that's not my line of reasoning at all. What I'm saying is that it appears this person was exceptionally prone to anxiety to begin with.

But what I find particularly amusing is the fact you could say
then say
That is just priceless.




Oh, my apologies. You didn't make it up. You heard it from someone else. Of course it must be true...........because we all know how common it is for atheists to suffer panic attacks throughout their lives due to fear of death.

Happens all the time.

Right?

Eh, let's find out. Where might we find a lot of atheists......hmmmm.......oh, I know - how about right here?

Any atheists here that have panic attacks because they fear death?

Don't be shy, speak up!

Hmmm. OK. As long as we're telling true stories, try this one.

There was this guy. His mother was dieing of breast cancer, widely metasticized. He owed her a bunch of money. He had agreed to make regular payments to her when he borrowed it, but had never made a single payment in the 5+ years since. So now that his mother was terminally ill, he told her, straight to her face, "just take it out of my inheritance". The mother wasn't really all that concerned with the money, she just wanted her son to be responsible, so she was quite dissatisfied with this response. When she let the son know this, he was openly critical of her spending habits, citing the new car she had bought 2 years prior and a few vacations she had taken in her retirement as her "blowing his inheritance".

The son stormed out of the house, and refused to see or even speak to the mother ever again, even declining to come see her at the hospice hours before her death as she lay unconcious and fading. (His brother called him to inform him that she was unconscious and probably wouldn't make it to the next morning. He said he'd think about coming by. Never did.)

But there was still one more act to this play.

The mothers will. She specifically wrote this son out of the will, instead giving his share of her estate to his estranged young daughter in the form of an education trust fund. A final "fuck you", if you will.

The mother is my Mom. An atheist to the core, right to the end. And I assure you, she did not feel that her life was wasted in any way. You see, I know this, because me and my sister (also an atheist) both reduced our workloads to part-time so that one of us could always be with my Mom in those last months of her life. Lotsa time to talk. It was hell on my bills, but it was completely worth it.

And of course, the brother is my brother. A devout christian who attends church every Sunday, tithes a full 10% of his income to his church, and even sends money to the 700 Club on a regular basis.

And he's done more than just this. A lot more. This story is just the tip of the iceberg.

So........you wanna tell me stories about atheists being cruel, unethical, heartless?

But, as [email protected] clearly illustrated, you failed to show that the atheist view is terroristic in any way, even in the worst-case scenarios you provided.

And you in no way showed how the christian view is not terroristic.

Oh, gosh, don't beat around the bush - what does it tell about me? I really want to know.

Do you fear going to sleep at night?

Valdemar

First off, it's bad form to alter your posts so completely after you posted them that they don't resemble your original statements. You seem to wait for a response, then go back and edit your posts to make things "fit" better. You had said something to the effect of "what's that got to do with the op" in this particular response, but that comment is completely gone replaced with all of this:

And on a previous post, you added all this:

Why don't you just start a new reply instead of changing things so completely?

Again, very bad form.

Valdemar

That's what your original reply was before you deleted it and changed it completely. Here's my response:

My point is, if you're going to just make up things as you go along (hell), then why not just eliminate hell completely? I agree with the OP that belief in hell is a form of terrorism to children. I was terrorized by that belief myself as a child. If you're just going to make things up, then why not make this up as what is waiting in the "afterlife?"



Or, pick some other religion that doesn't burn you for an eternity.

[email protected]

I'm not sure how we could stop it. But I don't see a need to. I think it would stop all by itself if we simply stopped endorsing and subsidizing it.

Christians, who claim to believe in the ten commandments (one of which is that one shouldn't steal) do so all the time by petitioning for tax exempt status when it is not a requirement. While it is technically not theft, because it is legal that doesn't pardon them from the commandments which are based on actual results--the underpaying of tax by one member of a community must necessarily result in either less services for all or more tax for others both of which transfer wealth without explicit permission which is the definition of theft. Claiming it isn't theft is akin to claiming that a blow job isn't sex because there was no intercourse.

I too believe there are very very few genuine Christians, at least judging from the people I have known and learned of. But then I look to behavior as the best indicator of a persons' beliefs and priorities. Perhaps we should deny all Chrisitian organizations tax exempt status on the basis that applying for it proves a desire to steal and therefore rules out the possibility that the organization could be Christian to begin with.

naturalist.atheist

We have all sorts of laws against making much, much lesser threats. You can't yell fire in a theater unless there is a fire. If you do and they catch you they will lock you up.

Why are Christians allowed to threaten people with eternal torture when no one has any idea if any torture is going on at all?

burning flames

He might be!


check my little piece "jesus is a terrorist and passive aggressive"


christianity = fear of hell. in every case. in every convert. in every follower...

when you realize what god has done for you, you will see how much he loves you

this is the big argument of christianity.

its a dark, bleak statement.

lets break it down

does this have a gloomy overtone... adreadful overtone?

yes it does

what is god doing, save from hell? yes. thats huge. but it was his idea in the firstplace. I agree that it is immense that people get saved from eternal torment. IT is insane. IT is the only way out.... but thats a horrible thing in the firstplace. humans arent that bad. no one should have that. its too dreadful. its too terrible. its too screwed up. and thats why it seems so good. tyhats the whole thing. hell scares the living crap out of people and jesus offers relief. the imagination puts so much dread and terror into hell that by the time the m ind is scared enough of hell, jesus is bound to make it feel better. the realization that christ saves from hell is awful. its absolutely awful, its not even sickening. its on another level. horrific, dreadful, gloomy, desolate. soooo desolate. soo dark and hopeless.

are you telling me this isnt a fear based religion?

this god isnt using love, hes using fear. hes convincing people they are all going to hell and he is the only way out. thats cold man, hardcore, and oh so cold, real effing low. screw him



-----------------------------------------------------------

talk to any chrisitian and you will see someone who is relieved that they dont go to hell.

is saving from hell good? yes.

is creating people and letting them live in a world where you find them all worthy of hell and you fully intend and carry out the promise of sending them there but offer them a way out knowing that many will go to hell anyway good?

no

end of story

want to know what that is.

passive agressive. in a nutshell. look it up.



imagine I visit my friend who is an animal enthusiast who raises animals. lets say while he is out working I kill one of his animals and cook it for him for dinner

is cooking him dinner good? yes

is killing one of his animals and using it to cook him dinner good?

no passive aggressive