Dave31

And based on primary source evidence, so was Osiris and Horus - 3,000 years before Jesus. Your extreme denial of those primary sources and the blatantly obvious parallel has been noted.

Christ in Egypt, Google books 313

Toto

I haven't denied those primary sources. I accept them. But if all Kings of israel were annointed, and all corpses were annointed, why is it significant that Jesus and Osiris and Horus were all portrayed as annointed?

I'm not denying parallels between Jesus and the Egyptian religion. I just think that this one is not worth much.

Dave31

Okay, so you accept the primary sources and parallel but, you don't consider it significant. It's significant because from the time of the Middle Empire the deceased became an "Osiris" and/or Horus, as they're interchangeable in several ways.

Egyptologist Eric Hornung says that “the fact of death makes the king himself an ‘Osiris’; he bears this name as a title of honor.” Morenz adds that “the entire ritual complex of Osirian burial, including mummification itself…enabled the dead to become Osiris.”

StarryNight

but Jesus (if he existed) could have known the bible and Jewish thinking through the targumim and the talmuds, both written in Aramaic? Or not?

Mars Man

It might be good, in keeping with the fair quality of the posts above, to keep in mind that it is exactly a fact that a Yeshua lived in that area of the world some 2,000 years or so ago (and before and after that time window, as well). Please do correct me if I am mistaken, but as is, it does appear as though your question is presupposing the character as drawn in the NT. A Yeshua did exist.

No one living during the period of 100 BCE~100 CE could have known our Bible of today, therefore it might be good to more precisely fine tune your question on that point as well.

Most any Yeshua would have known Jewish thinking, in general, but, again, regarding the general Jewish religious belief-system, we can understand that there were a handful of 'schools.'

Why do you ask?

show_no_mercy

The Talmud didn't start to get written until around 200 CE. And its viewpoint is mainly Pharisee/Rabbinic Judaism, and Jesus (according to the gospel narratives) was antagonistic to Pharisee/Rabbinic thought.

bacht

Josephus was a Palesinian Jew roughly contemporary with the gospel background. His native language was Aramaic, which he used to compose his histories, and he needed Greek translators to produce the editions we know. This would suggest that most Palestinians couldn't read Greek and therefore couldn't read the Septuagint.

There were some Greek letters and documents as well as Hebrew and Aramaic found in the Cave of Letters occupied during the bar Kochba revolt (132-135).

avi

Here's the two versions of Mark 5:41
--my emphasis
--my emphasis

1. Are the two versions identical in meaning despite the two very slight differences (highlighted) in text?

2. Why does the absence of "I say to you" suggest that the author did not know Aramaic? Do you mean that the author wrote "I say to you" in Greek, instead of Aramaic, or that he simply omitted the words from the verse, and the English translation added the non-existent text, or that proper Aramaic sentence structure requires existence of "I say to you"? To my ear, there is nothing wrong with use of the imperative: "maiden, arise", i.e. without the "I say to you" inserted. Is this any different from the practice of 19th century English, Russian, or German novelists inserting a few French words into their text, to demonstrate erudition?

avi

andrewcriddle

egeirai and egeire (infinitive and imperative) mean the same here.

koum is the Aramaic masculine imperative (often used for women) koumi is the Aramaic feminine imperative.

Andrew Criddle

spin

I wouldn't quite say that, Andrew. But I would say that the former is a correction of the latter which may reflect a dialect difference. Under certain circumstances the latter may have been seen as an "error". egeire is the active form of the verb. Normally you raise something up. Here it would be reflexive, but there is nothing to indicate that fact, so I'd assume as it is used this way in all the gospels, that it was a "localized" dialect development. The latter egeirai being "(aorist) middle" is better suited to the reflexive needs of good Greek.

ταλιθα κουμι	talitha koumi
ο εστιν μεθερμηνευομενον	that is, translated,
το κορασιον	little girl
σοι λεγω	I say to you
εγειρε	arise

spin