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Old 10-25-2007, 12:38 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto
Chris complains that mountainman used "hegemon" improperly, but I don't see that mountainman did more than post a cryptic comment, which he has not explained. Perhaps this is "improper" but I will leave mm to explain what he meant. It is surely not the only cryptic comment he has made here, nor the most unsupported.
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Toto:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainman
Hegemon is seldom admitted.
Now, if he was confused and really meant hegemony, it would be ok. But hegemon here isn't proper.

"Leader is seldom admitted."
I gather that mm really meant that hegemony is seldom admitted, which I think is untrue in general. Most hegemons and dominant groups have advertised their superiority.

Or maybe he meant that Constantine was the hegemon and was totally up front with his dominance and his ability to command that a new religion be created, in contrast to the hidden manipulators who control the new world order.

:huh:
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Old 10-25-2007, 12:58 PM   #82
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Perhaps "hegemon" refers here to a dying and rising tyrant of the sublunar realm?
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Old 10-25-2007, 01:56 PM   #83
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Now, if he was confused and really meant hegemony, it would be ok. But hegemon here isn't proper.

"Leader is seldom admitted."
hegemon n. One that exercises hegemony.

"That Christianity was a [h]egemon is seldom admitted." appears to be the intended meaning.
Is either yours or Toto's the sound exegetical reading, especially given his further explanation adding the definition of "hegemony"?
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Old 10-25-2007, 02:47 PM   #84
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What, are we now doing exegesis of mountainman's posts? Why? he's not a dead prophet. If he can't explain himself clearly, let's just forget about this.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:20 PM   #85
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why not?
Because it is neither an individual nor a group of individuals, but an abstraction.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:21 PM   #86
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That's what philosophers call a 'category error'. 'Christianity' is not the sort of thing that can be a hegemon.
hegemony n. The predominant influence, as of a state, region, or group, over another or others. -American Heritage


Why can't a religion be a "predominant influence"?
I didn't say it couldn't be a hegemony, I said it couldn't be a hegemon.
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Old 10-25-2007, 05:24 PM   #87
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What, are we now doing exegesis of mountainman's posts? Why?
ROSENCRANTZ: We could play at questions!
GUILDENSTERN: What good would that do?
ROSENCRANTZ: Practice!
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Old 10-26-2007, 08:04 PM   #88
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why not?
Because it is neither an individual nor a group of individuals, but an abstraction.
The hegemon is the ruling group (of individuals).

Read the definition carefully, no need to cross-examine it:

Quote:
Hegemony is a concept that has been used to describe the existence of dominance of one social group over another, such that the ruling group -- referred to as a hegemon -- acquires some degree of consent from the subordinate, as opposed to dominance purely by force.
The Nicene hegemon (as fomalised by the written
oath of the attendees to Constantine) is at the
foundation of Christianity as we know it.

Examine the disclaimer clause and you will find
the warnings of Arius against that hegemon.
Warnings against the historicity of Jesus.



Best wishes


Pete Brown
Nenikekas Galilaie
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Old 10-28-2007, 01:58 PM   #89
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Outside of the weird little bubble of this board, the idea that he didn't [exist] is generally regarded as absurd.
His historical existence was declared
BULLSHIT by Arius and BULLBURNER
long before the bubble of this board.


"The time has come for me to say for the benefit of all
how I discovered beyond any doubt
that the stories of the Galileans
are the inventions of deceivers and tricksters.

For these men seduce people into thinking
that <their> gruesome story is the truth
by appealling to the part of the soul
that loves what is simple and childish"

--- The opinion of Emperor Julian on the HJ, 362 CE.
--- Translation R. Joseph Hoffman's Julian's Against the Galileans (or via: amazon.co.uk).
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Old 10-28-2007, 04:37 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by J-D View Post
Because it is neither an individual nor a group of individuals, but an abstraction.
The hegemon is the ruling group (of individuals).

Read the definition carefully, no need to cross-examine it:

Quote:
Hegemony is a concept that has been used to describe the existence of dominance of one social group over another, such that the ruling group -- referred to as a hegemon -- acquires some degree of consent from the subordinate, as opposed to dominance purely by force.
The Nicene hegemon (as fomalised by the written
oath of the attendees to Constantine) is at the
foundation of Christianity as we know it.

Examine the disclaimer clause and you will find
the warnings of Arius against that hegemon.
Warnings against the historicity of Jesus.



Best wishes


Pete Brown
Nenikekas Galilaie
A bunch of words do not constitute a ruling group.

I am familiar with your interpretation of Arius, but find it unpersuasive.

Are you aware that in the fifth and sixth centuries the Gothic, Vandal, Burgundian, and Lombard rulers of Western Europe belonged to ostensibly Christian churches which rejected the Council of Nicaea and adhered to views described as Arian but incompatible with your interpretation of Arius?
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