wordy

Sorry Don't get me wrong. I only asked
about the physical evidence for any Gnostic
leader living close to alleged Jesus or Paul in time
and that one can say with certainty. This person lived
and did have these views.

I don't get a word of the other stuff any of you say.
Not to be rude but I trust it is interesting for those o nthat level.

MrMacSon

The "mind of Christ" is an unsubstantiated assertion. It certainly is not known, as the word gnostic implies.

"Man in the image of God" is also mere proposition
.

DCHindley

Generally, No.

What exactly do you mean by "gnostic"? To me, the term Gnostic (with a big G) refers to folks who believe that the God of the Jews is not the supreme god, but rather a created one who is ignorant of his own origin much less the origin of the world which he rules. Their interest is in letting their soul rise up to the "fullness" by using secret passwords and sigla to pass by YHWH's guardian angels in the 7 heavens. There is a certain connection to heavenly ascents mentioned in Greeek and Jewish magical texts, also from the 2nd century CE.

The term gnostic (with a little g) was also used by Christian writer Clement of Alexandria to describe those Christians who saw "deep" meaning in the plain language of the Christian Old Testament. Clement and his protogé Origen were influenced by Philo of Alexandria's attempt to "explain" statements in Jewish holy books in the language of the Middle Platonists.

It is believed that "big G" Gnostic teachers were in Egypt and maybe Rome in the 2nd century CE, but there is no definitive evidence for gnostics in Jesus' time. There is speculation that some form of Jewish Gnosticism was born in the dissapointment over the failure of the 1st & 2nd Jewish rebellions.

Jewish critic Gershom Scholem uses the term "Gnostic" when other critics prefer to speak of Jewish mysticism (heavenly ascents, etc).

DCH

mountainman

The evidence for the gnostics are the MANUSCRIPTS known as "the gnostic gospels and acts".
The evidence indicates that these were OUTLAWED and DESTROYED by the canon followers after Nicaea.
These books were listed on the LIST of PROHIBITED BOOKS.
These books were NOT TO BE READ IN the 4th century CHURCH.


This suggests that the church had no control over the authorship of these books.
The only thing that the 4th century church could do was to try and search them out for burning.





YES. I can point to CLAIMS made by lying and corrupt sources.


According to the following sources Leucius Charinus was the author of the Acts of Paul and lived at the same time as the Apostle John.


0220 ... Tertullian The Prescription against Heretics - the author of the Acts of Paul was "a presbyter in Asia" !!

0377 *. Epiphanius "Against Heresies" - makes the first explicit reference to the name Leucius - "a disciple of John"

0399 *. Augustine Contra Faustum Manichaeum (22:79) identified the author "Leucius", a "cobbler of fables".

0??? * Euodius De fide contra Manichaeos (38) identifies the author as "Leucius".

0400 ... Jerome repeats Tertullian, with the addition that the judgment of the priest took place in the presence of the Apostle John, an assertion which is surely erroneous.


For further data on Leucius Charinus see my notes.

Of course this is typical 4th century church pseudo-history.

My take is that the gnostic author of the Acts of Paul (etc etc etc) actually lived in the 4th century.

That's when the shit hit the fan.

Robert Tulip

Elaine Pagels in The Gnostic Paul argues that the epistles are intended at two levels, pneumatic and hylic, for the spiritual and material readers. The spiritual pneumatics are the Gnostics, in Pagels' view, while the hylic materialists produced orthodoxy.

There must have been a community of spiritual readers, for example through the Buddhist Thera-putta, who gave rise to the Therapeuts and Gnostics of Egypt and the Holy Land, as allegorically minded attendants on religious understanding.

Chili

I call that hyletic vision as opposite to noetic vision with lyric vision in between pertaining to the artisan and craftsman who have perfect vision of a form in the particular.

Telic vision (not to confuse with tunnel vision) is reaching out for the 'final cause' of noetic vision that requires a journey inward, and this is what the Gosples are about with mountaintop stories and water walkers to reach the other side where noetic vision is at.

According to Plato we need about 12 of these eidetic images (forms), and these would be the shepherds of Joseph in the confusion they caused in his own mind, etc.

Chili

Sure, but that is where Atlantis is found.

Gnostic is noetic as opposite to agnostic that is hyletic, with the believer in between with lyric vision who may or may not have correct opinion. Above that is the spiritually empowered mystic who still is wrong more often than not.

Chili

To me the word gnostic means 'all knowing' as in omniscient and the capitial G is added to identify Gnostic-ism as a club for those who want to be gnostic.

Same thing with Pantheists who can see God in nature but not in themselves, while in fact to see trees as our equal is to see them 'walking like men' by identifying with their essence as tree in the same way as we know our own essence as man also in the image of God.

This that what transubstantiation is all about and so consubstantiation denies this as fact.

DCHindley

Sounds like a Masonic lodge ...

Thanks for your consideration! (shame we don't have a smiley of someone shooting arrows or curtsying)

DCH

Invisible 1

If your talking about the authors of what are known as the gnostic gospels, then it appears to be no.

According to Wikipedia they are dated anywhere from the early second century to the late 3rd.

Although it does say that the gospel of Thomas: It seems to be a parallel development, with gnostics on the losing end.

Wikipedia has an excellent section (several sections actually) on Gnosticism and christian gnostics and their writings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

On the right there is a menu that goes to several categories.