Freethought & Rationalism Archive

MetalFish · 08-10-2004, 04:11 PM

A few days ago when i was driving down a street around my home i stubbled upon a catholic church that was having a large garage sale. I just had go check this thing out so i went over. The outside of the church and parts of the inside had tables set up with goods spread all across. As i walked around the only thing that i could think of was didn't these people know about the part of the bible were Jesus went crazy over people selling things in a church ( i am fairly sure i have that right, but i might be wrong, maybe Jesus went crazy because it was sabbath or something ) Has anyone else seen such things being done by church-goers that seems to just go against some part of their teachings?

Garnet · 08-10-2004, 04:34 PM

LOL...this thread will probably open the floodgates.

In the NT, Jesus gives two instructions on how to pray. One is to not pray in public and the other is when you pray, say this. "our father who art in heaven..." Now, I've heard a lot of Christians say the our father prayer. But not praying in public???

I'd look up the verses, but my bible software is being less than cooperative.

Barefoot Bree · 08-11-2004, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garnet

I'd look up the verses, but my bible software is being less than cooperative.

Not to worry, Garnet, I guarantee that you'll have the answer within the next three posts........

Nectaris · 08-11-2004, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barefoot Bree

Not to worry, Garnet, I guarantee that you'll have the answer within the next three posts........

I was thinking about making three posts of gobbledygook just to prove your prophecy wrong, but post-slutting is frowned upon.

The relevant passages are from Mark 11, verses 15-17 to be exact:

Quote:

NRSV
15 Then they came to Jerusalem. And he entered the temple and began to drive out those who were selling and those who were buying in the temple, and he overturned the tables of the money changers and the seats of those who sold doves; 16 and he would not allow anyone to carry anything through the temple. 17 He was teaching and saying, "Is it not written, "My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations'? But you have made it a den of robbers."

I think the objection was more to the priestly practice of exchanging money (roman coin for sheckels and back with extravagant fees), however there seems to be a general charge against using religious houses as places of business. Somebody who is more knowlegeable about the NT could probably shed some more light if necessary. Or if anyone cares all that much, someone could make a post in BCH.

Dave

Garnet · 08-11-2004, 09:30 AM

*chuckle* Thanks all...but I found the ones I was thinking of and they are all in Matt 6. (From KJV)

Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.

Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven.

I cut short the rest of the Lord's prayer.

Gawen · 08-11-2004, 07:07 PM

Yeah yeah yeah...but did ya BUY anything. This is the real burning question...

MetalFish · 08-12-2004, 05:55 AM

no no, i didnt buy anything. I was hoping to find a bible there and open it up to something like Mark 11:15 and ask someone who was working there to explain it to me. I would have liked to see that person's face. But surprisingly there was not a single bible anywhere.

Face · 08-12-2004, 06:08 AM

Seems slightly less SL than GRD. Ping-pong it if I'm wrong.

abe smith · 08-12-2004, 07:37 AM

one response might be, that places where religionists meet are NOT "holy
places" ( = contaminated w/ a deity's presence)./ "temples". I don't think for example that the Puritan etc founders of New England entertained that their meeting houses were "holy places".

That rather , um, idolatrous idea may predate the JudeoChrx religions. Tis true that the RCs and their stepchildren the HighCheuch Anglicans seem to have this holding, about buildings.

edit: Many of those whom sophisticates presume to label "primitives" or
"pagans" do evince this sort of *sanctification* of physical places & physical/material implements and substances; and the core-line of the Catholicisms does infold it heavily; shrines (to martyrs = Thos a' Becket, et al); the Holy Places [sic} in Jerusalem; places ( even "Christianated" preChrx
sites in Ireland). Catholic clerics sanctify buildings, implements, garments, beads, statues all that stuff; and when all-those are "demobbed" from their religious uses & purposes, the things etc have to be DE*sanctified* before being downgraded for other uses.

I'd call this sort of thing "idolatrous" = a violation of the Second Commandment, myself; but of course what religionists do is none of my business.

What is the OP's essential gripe here at this post? Probably your protests about their behaviours are not going to dissuade any believers to abandon their practices; you're an unBeliever, and hence your opinions don't matter.

08-10-2004, 04:11 PM	#1
MetalFish Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 48	Church Garage Sale A few days ago when i was driving down a street around my home i stubbled upon a catholic church that was having a large garage sale. I just had go check this thing out so i went over. The outside of the church and parts of the inside had tables set up with goods spread all across. As i walked around the only thing that i could think of was didn't these people know about the part of the bible were Jesus went crazy over people selling things in a church ( i am fairly sure i have that right, but i might be wrong, maybe Jesus went crazy because it was sabbath or something ) Has anyone else seen such things being done by church-goers that seems to just go against some part of their teachings?

08-11-2004, 09:30 AM	#5
Garnet Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 6,610	verses about how to pray. chuckle Thanks all...but I found the ones I was thinking of and they are all in Matt 6. (From KJV) Mat 6:5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites [are]: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. Mat 6:6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Mat 6:8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Mat 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as [it is] in heaven. I cut short the rest of the Lord's prayer.

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08-10-2004, 04:34 PM	#2
Garnet Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Lansing, MI Posts: 6,610	LOL...this thread will probably open the floodgates. In the NT, Jesus gives two instructions on how to pray. One is to not pray in public and the other is when you pray, say this. "our father who art in heaven..." Now, I've heard a lot of Christians say the our father prayer. But not praying in public??? I'd look up the verses, but my bible software is being less than cooperative.

08-11-2004, 07:07 PM	#6
Gawen Contributor Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Cylon Occupied Texas, but a Michigander @ heart Posts: 10,326	Yeah yeah yeah...but did ya BUY anything. This is the real burning question...

08-12-2004, 05:55 AM	#7
MetalFish Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Louisville Ky Posts: 48	no no, i didnt buy anything. I was hoping to find a bible there and open it up to something like Mark 11:15 and ask someone who was working there to explain it to me. I would have liked to see that person's face. But surprisingly there was not a single bible anywhere.

08-12-2004, 06:08 AM	#8
Face Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 543	Seems slightly less SL than GRD. Ping-pong it if I'm wrong.

08-12-2004, 07:37 AM	#9
abe smith Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: springfield, MA. USA Posts: 2,482	one response might be, that places where religionists meet are NOT "holy places" ( = contaminated w/ a deity's presence)./ "temples". I don't think for example that the Puritan etc founders of New England entertained that their meeting houses were "holy places". That rather , um, idolatrous idea may predate the JudeoChrx religions. Tis true that the RCs and their stepchildren the HighCheuch Anglicans seem to have this holding, about buildings. edit: Many of those whom sophisticates presume to label "primitives" or "pagans" do evince this sort of sanctification of physical places & physical/material implements and substances; and the core-line of the Catholicisms does infold it heavily; shrines (to martyrs = Thos a' Becket, et al); the Holy Places [sic} in Jerusalem; places ( even "Christianated" preChrx sites in Ireland). Catholic clerics sanctify buildings, implements, garments, beads, statues all that stuff; and when all-those are "demobbed" from their religious uses & purposes, the things etc have to be DEsanctified before being downgraded for other uses. I'd call this sort of thing "idolatrous" = a violation of the Second Commandment, myself; but of course what religionists do is none of my business. What is the OP's essential gripe here at this post? Probably your protests about their behaviours are not going to dissuade any believers to abandon their practices; you're an unBeliever, and hence your opinions don't matter.

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