Magus55

Actually, I find the Trinity to be extremely supported by scripture. Just because you don't doesn't mean it isn't in there.

Mageth

Umm, according to the Catholics, it's not.

I think any Catholic scholar or theologian would pooh-pooh your notion that the RCC can "contradict" scripture.

And you don't need to be Catholic to see the problems with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura or the corruption in many Protestant churches and denominations.

Take it up with the Catholics, why don't you?

Mageth

Yes, if one starts with the concept of the Trinity that the Church developed over centuries, as you do, and then "look back" at the Bible, it would seem apparent that that concept of the Trinity is "extremely supported" by Scripture. But that's not how it originally was.

I've seen all the support for the "Trinity" found in the scripture. Yes, one can deduce the concept of the Trinity from what's found there (and also can deduce other concepts of the Godhead, as many did, and have), but it took the "Church" a few hundred years to finally come up with the actual Trinitarian doctrine that you're familiar with today. The "Trinity" you believe in today is a product of the early Church, and won out over competing concepts of the Godhead, and is thus as much a "tradition" of the Church as it is Bible-based. And again, working back from the concept, it might seem "obvious" to you when you look at scripture. But it certainly wasn't always so.

Chili

. . . and Catholic tradition is based on reality. The Assumption of Mary is to be compared with the Ascension of Jesus but to whom the woman was added. The Assumption of Mary makes heaven complete for without her the city of God would not be part of heaven: "The woman you saw is the great city which has sovereignty over the kings of the earth." That is to say, Mary is the city of God in each person to the same extent they have aboriginal heritage in God = basis for the veneration of Mary which includes whispering adorations).

Chili

That's too bad because the Assumption of Mary ends the trinity with the Coronation of Mary. Here's a passage for you Magus.

"Enraged at her escape the dragon went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep Gods commandments and give witness to Jesus. He took up his position by the shore of the sea" (Rev.12:17).

John A. Broussard

Do you happen to have a reference for that?

Thanks.

Visionary7

I'm not a Catholic, I don't believe in the Catholic figure of Mary as Jesus's mother in heaven.That is a teaching of the RCC, not of Jesus.I believe that Jesus is the only God in heaven.I have come to the point where I am compeletely unable to discern between Jesus and Father of Israel.The 2 parts of that trinity are so closely connected in my faith that I can't discern between the two, even by Spirit.


What makes you desire to find this connection? There doesn't seem to be any. IMO I'm going to open a skeptic thread.

Visionary7

Matthew 1:18-25 18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

I presume the Holy Spirit made Mary sinless by birth of Christ.Nothing sinful can come from the Holy Spirit. IMO

Magus55

The concept of Mary being sinless is that she was born without original sin, like Jesus. Its known as the immaculate conception.

Evoken

Which then reduces your claim to subjective opinion.