stephan huller

The idea that Philo might have been understood to be named 'Judah' by Jews in Alexandria in the medieval period is acknowledged by many. It is also worth noting that Eusebius and many sources identify a 'Judas' who is Jewish as establishing a mode of calculating the 70 weeks of Daniel which coincided with the age of Severus (195 - 211). We know nothing about this Judas other than he must have lived before the age of Commodus and - it would seem - that writers like Clement and Origen used this author. Could Judah have really been the name of Philo? I don't know. It is another interesting line of inquiry.

More on this Judas - http://books.google.com/books?id=HOg...0Judas&f=false

Toto

Please stop posting on this issue until you do that research.


Yes, you are listing these for the third time. Did you somehow miss my reply to at least one of those that these would only establish that the author of VC was even more Jewish than Philo?

The most frustrating thing about your posting style is that you raise an issue and ignore replies, then raise it again as if no one had said anything.


As noted, Conybeare bases his argument on linguistics, which for most people are sufficiently conclusive.

stephan huller

An interesting side bar is that this Judas is sometimes identified as being responsible for the chronology mentioned in Stromata Book 1 which ends on 147 CE. But Philo credits this to 'Josephus.' Interestingly however is the fact that if 'Judas' was responsible for this another fifty year period would be 197 CE the real beginning of the rule of Septimus Severus, thus helping make sense of Eusebius's statements.

stephan huller

Eusebius on Judas the Alexandrian

Obviously these comments would contradict my earlier statement about 197 CE. If Judas identified the 490 years to end at 202 CE how does he think that the temple was built 288 BCE?

tanya

(attention, quote mining ahead, be careful)
But, Toto, I was not arguing that some Jews do or do not pray at sunrise and sunset. I was arguing that there exists no FORMAL WRITTEN doctrine, within Judaism, DEMANDING prayer to YHWH, at those two times of each day, seven days a week, AS THERE HAD BEEN, for the followers of Apastamba, five hundred years before Philo.

In reply, to refute me, you proposed that Psalm 72,number 5, authored by David, represented such authority, such a requirement, to behave as a faithful Jew by praying at sunrise and sunset. You introduced the notion that Psalm 72, verse 5 represented evidence that Jews of 2000 years ago, adhered to a rigid formula, offering prayer at sunrise and sunset, as Philo had described for the Therapeutae.

I deny that this psalm is anything more than propaganda, insulting all other people, on the planet, who happen not to be born, as I was, Jewish. This psalm in particular, justifies the arrogant notion that Jews ought to have more wealth than anyone else, and that all other folks ought to bend over, and kiss their ass, else, fall on their sword. It certainly has NOTHING to do with praying to YHWH, at sunrise or sunset. The reference to the sun, and the moon, in this psalm, is to an astronomically visible entity which has existed for all time, and which will exist for all time in the foreseeable future, hence, a metaphor for the rule of David.

No disagreement here. You are the one who introduced Psalm 72, not me. I am still waiting for you, to provide some reference to Hebrew doctrine demanding prayer to YHWH twice daily, at sunrise and sunset, else, to acknowledge, that Philo's text is incompatible with the concept that the Therapeutae were Jewish. Why else would Philo make a point of describing this Zoroastrian practice, except in the context of differentiating the Therapeutae's conduct, with the conventions followed by ordinary, religious Jews, WHO DO NOT PRAY AT SUNRISE or SUNSET, because of some doctrine. They may well pray at sunrise and sunset, but not because some Hebrew text commands this behaviour. Sunrise may correspond to the hour when they awaken. Who knows what motivates prayer? My father used to pray every night, before going to sleep, no relationship to the sun. His morning prayer was unrelated to sunrise. In winter, it was dark when he awakened. In summer, the sun had risen hours earlier. This behaviour is completely at variance with what Philo describes, and I argue that Philo makes the effort to elaborate the customs of the Therapeutae, with respect to prayer at sunrise and sunset, BECAUSE this conduct is so unique, and so distinct, so very different from the conduct of Jews.

If you read Philo's letter to Gaius, you will see that he also compares the pagan Emperor of Rome's behaviour, favorably, with the legend of Hercules. It is irrelevant to the issue. I was "parsing" the sentence to illustrate the fact that Philo felt an obligation to highlight an aspect of the Therapeutae, by comparison with some standard, some "typical" behaviour, some conduct which ordinary Jews of Alexandria would comprehend, implying that the behaviour of the Therapeutae was otherwise incomprehensible, BECAUSE THEY WERE NOT JEWS, else, their conduct would have been entirely understood, and there would have been no need to highlight the bizarre conduct. What need has Philo to explain that the Therapeutae have a sacred shrine in each person's home, unless it were to differentiate this custom from the habits of the Alexandrian Jews who DID NOT HAVE a sacred shrine in their homes?

I think that is precisely what I am doing, when I submit my posts to this forum. That is why I enjoy reading some folks' contributions, and dislike reading others. Some posts are truly "scholarly". Others are simply absurdly childish antics.

How could Philo understand "what was meant", in LXX, if he had not compared it to the Hebrew text, extant in his era, text likely comparable to that found in Qumran? I have no doubt, whatsoever, that Philo was completely fluent in Hebrew.

I believe that the proper analogy, today, is with electronics, and cpu architecture, in particular. A Russian, or Chinese, or Japanese architect, writing about a novel, innovative cpu design, may choose English as the medium of expression, as did Philo choose Greek, but, their thoughts, their culture, their interests, hobbies, and habits, remain, Russian, Chinese, or Japanese, respectively. To argue, based on the brilliance of their communication in English, that they were ignorant of Russian, Chinese or Japanese, would be shortsighted. There is no way that Philo would have written about Moses in Greek, as he did, without having also read the Torah, in Hebrew, in my opinion.

aa5874

Philo's identity is irrelevant. It is illogical that Jews only write about Jewish sects.

The Therapeutae did MODEL their philoshpy after Non Jewish sects in 'VC'.

The text mentions Non-Jewish features of the Therapeutae.

The Therapeutae is NOT identified as a Jewish group in 'VC'.

The Therapeutae share features of other sects like the Christians of the Jesus cult.

The Therapeutae share features of other sects like the Christians of the Jesus cult.

The Therapeutae share features of non-Jewish sects today. In "Church History", around 1600 years ago, the Therapeutae were considered early Christians.

Again, anyone who have actually read the works of Philo will immediately admit that Philo did NOT ever write or acknowledge that the Therapeutae were Jews or were of Jewish origin.

In Apology for the Jews [Hypothetica] NO mention at all is made of the Therapeutae when he described the Essenes.

stephan huller

All experts see this as sarcasm. Gaius was crazy and unpredictable. At the very least it can be seen as flattery, ass-kissing. No one can possibly take this as meaning that Philo really loved Hercules.

stephan huller

No but its not illogical to say that Jews only write approvingly of individuals and traditions which conform to Jewish Law - hence limiting who and what is deemed appropriate or acceptable.

stephan huller

That's not found anywhere in the text. All Philo says is that whatever this branch of the Essenes represented it accorded with certain types of Greek philosophy. Not the same thing.

stephan huller

Like what? Haven't heard a single example in 500 plus posts

That's ridiculous but the original statement was they were connected with the Essenes who are identified by Philo as Jewish

But Christianity is also a Jewish sect so that wouldn't be surprising.

But the articles I cited make specific reference to the report of Alexandrian Jewish interest in the 364 calendar dated to 200 years before Jesus. Irrelevant point but see above (i.e. Christians may well have been related to the Therapeutae but the Therapeutae were first)

So what? It was quite common for Christians to interpret Jewish scriptures as pointing to Jesus. Doesn't mean that's true. It only shows a pattern of misidentifying 'Jewish things' as 'Christian things.'