JoeWallack

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Luke 2:1-2


ἐγένετο δὲ----------ἐν---ταῖς----ἡμέραις--ἐκείναις--ἐξῆλθεν-------δόγμα

And it came about---in---those---days----that-----was sent out--a decree



παρὰ--Καίσαρος-Αὐγούστου-ἀπογράφεσθαι-πᾶσαν-τὴν--οἰκουμένην

from--Caesar---Augustus---to register----all-----the--world



αὕτη--ἀπογραφὴ---πρώτη--------------------ἐγένετο--ἡγεμονεύοντος--τῆς

This--registration--was first/foremost?--while-----is ruling---------the



Συρίας----Κυρηνίου

of Syria----Quirinius.


JW:
Mr. Carlson, would you be so kind as to Inventory here what you think the pertinent Textual Variation is? Thank you.



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack

JW:
Let's look at the Grammar for the Traditional Translation:

Luke 2:1-2


ἐγένετο δὲ----------ἐν---ταῖς----ἡμέραις--ἐκείναις--ἐξῆλθεν-------δόγμα

And it came about---in---those---days----that-----was sent out--a decree



παρὰ--Καίσαρος-Αὐγούστου-ἀπογράφεσθαι-πᾶσαν-τὴν--οἰκουμένην

from--Caesar---Augustus---to register-----all-----the--world



αὕτη--ἀπογραφὴ---πρώτη-----ἐγένετο--ἡγεμονεύοντος--τῆς

This--registration--was first---while-----is ruling---------the



Συρίας----Κυρηνίου

of Syria----Quirinius.


JW:
Mr. Carlson, you've previously indicated there is nothing wrong with the Grammar here. Do you still believe this? Most of the related Apologies I've seen say the grammar is "awkward" with the use of "first" but I don't see anything awkward about the grammar. Do you?


Now the Grammar for the Carlson Translation:

ἐγένετο δὲ----------ἐν---ταῖς----ἡμέραις--ἐκείναις--ἐξῆλθεν-------δόγμα

And it came about---in---those---days----that-----was sent out--a decree



παρὰ--Καίσαρος-Αὐγούστου-ἀπογράφεσθαι-πᾶσαν-τὴν--οἰκουμένην

from--Caesar---Augustus---to register-----all-----the--world



αὕτη--ἀπογραφὴ---πρώτη------------------------ἐγένετο--ἡγεμονεύοντος--τῆς

This--registration--became most prominent---while-----is ruling--------the



Συρίας----Κυρηνίου

of Syria----Quirinius.


JW:
I think the first question here is if this Grammatical construction is even Possible?



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

S.C.Carlson

I discuss the grammar of the passage in my blog post, Parsing Luke 2:2.

jgibson000

Joseph,

Perhaps you'd be kind enough to tell us how a posting of both the Greek text of Luke 2:1-2 and an interlinear translation of it constitues an actual "look at" (analyis) -- let alone a discussion -- of the grammar [how the text plays out against the rules of Greek syntax and morphology, etc.] of this passage?

Jeffrey Gibson

JoeWallack

JW:
Why don't we start with the Lexicon entry:

πρῶτος, η, ον (Hom.+; loanw. in rabb.).
�* pert. to being first in a sequence, inclusive of time, set (number), or space, first of several, but also when only two persons or things are involved (=πρότερος; exx. in Hdb. on J 1:15; Rdm.2 71f; Thackeray 183; s. also Mlt. 79; 245; B-D-F §62; Rob. 516; 662; and s. Mt 21:31 v.l.).
ⓐ of time first, earliest, earlier
α. as adj. ἀπὸ τῆς πρώτης ἡμ�*ρας ἄχρι τοῦ νῦν Phil 1:5; cp. Ac 20:18 (on the absence of the art. [also Phil 1:5 v.l.] s. B-D-F §256; Rob. 793). ἡ πρώτη ἀπολογία 2 Ti 4:16 (MMeinertz, Worauf bezieht sich die πρώτη ἀπολογία 2 Ti 4:16?: Biblica 4, 1923, 390–94). ἡ πρ. διαθήκη Hb 9:15. τὰ πρῶτα ἔργα Rv 2:5. ἡ ἀνάστασις ἡ πρώτη 20:5f. ἡ πρώτη ὅρασις Hv 3, 10, 3; 3, 11, 2; 4. ἡ ἐκκλησία ἡ πρ. 2 Cl 14:1.—Subst. τὰ πρ. … τὰ ἔσχατα (Job 8:7): γίνεται τὰ ἔσχατα χείρονα τῶν πρώτων Mt 12:45; cp. Lk 11:26; 2 Pt 2:20; Hv 1, 4, 2. οἱ πρῶτοι (those who came earlier, as Artem. 2, 9 p. 93, 19 those who appeared earlier) Mt 20:10; cp. vs. 8. ἀπ�*στειλεν ἄλλους δούλους πλείονας τῶν πρώτων 21:36. Cp. 27:64. πρῶτος ἐξ ἀναστάσεως νεκρῶν the first to rise from the dead Ac 26:23. ὁ πρῶτος the first one J 5:4; 1 Cor 14:30. On the self-designation of the Risen Lord ὁ πρ. καὶ ὁ ἔσχατος Rv 1:17; 2:8; 22:13; s. ἔσχατος 2b (πρ. of God: Is 44:6; 48:12).—As a predicate adj., where an adv. can be used in English (ParJer 1:8 εἰ μὴ ἐγὼ πρῶτος ἀνοίξω τὰς πύλας; B-D-F §243; Rob. 657), as the first one = first ἦλθεν πρῶτος he was the first one to come = he came first J 20:4; cp. vs. 8. πρῶτος Μωϋσῆς λ�*γει Ro 10:19. Ἀβραὰμ πρῶτος περιτομὴν δούς Abraham was the first to practice circumcision B 9:7. οἱ ἄγγελοι οἱ πρῶτοι κτισθ�*ντες the angels who were created first Hv 3, 4, 1; s 5, 5, 3.—1 Ti 2:13; 1J 4:19; AcPlCor 2:9.—ἐν ἐμοὶ πρώτῳ in me as the first 1 Ti 1:16.—Used w. a gen. of comparison (Ocelus Luc. 3 ἐκεῖνο πρῶτον τοῦ παντός ἐστιν=prior to the All; Manetho 1, 329; Athen. 14, 28 p. 630c codd.) πρῶτός μου ἦν he was earlier than I = before me J 1:15, 30 (PGM 13, 543 σοῦ πρῶτός εἰμι.—Also Ep. 12 of Apollonius of Tyana: Philostrat. I p. 348, 30 τὸ τῇ τάξει δεύτερον οὐδ�*ποτε τῇ φύσει πρῶτον). So perh. also ἐμὲ πρῶτον ὑμῶν μεμίσηκεν 15:18 (s. β below) and πάντων πρώτη ἐκτίσθη Hv 2, 4, 1.—As a rule the later element is of the same general nature as the one that precedes it. But it can also be someth. quite different, even its exact opposite: τὴν πρώτην πίστιν �*θ�*τησαν 1 Ti 5:12. τὴν ἀγάπην σου τὴν πρώτην ἀφῆκες Rv 2:4.—Used elliptically ἡ πρώτη (i.e. ἡμ�*ρα sim. Polyb. 5, 19, 1; 18, 27, 2 τῇ πρώτῃ) τῶν ἀζύμων Mt 26:17. πρώτῃ σαββάτου on the first day of the week Mk 16:9. In some of the passages mentioned above the idea of sequence could be predom.
β. the neuter πρῶτον as adv., of time first, in the first place, before, earlier, to begin with (Peripl. Eryth. 4; Chariton 8, 2, 4; ApcEsdr 3:11; Just., D. 2, 4) πρῶτον πάντων first of all Hv 5:5a. ἐπίτρεψόν μοι πρῶτον ἀπελθεῖν καὶ θάψαι let me first go and bury Mt 8:21. συλλ�*ξατε πρῶτον τὰ ζιζάνια gather the weeds first 13:30. Cp. 17:10, 11 v.l.; Mk 7:27; 9:11f; 13:10; Lk 9:59, 61; 12:1 ( first Jesus speaks to his disciples, and only then [vs. 15] to the people. If one prefers to take πρ. w. what follows, as is poss., it has mng. 2a); 14:28, 31; J 7:51; 18:13; Ac 26:20; Ro 15:24 al. in NT; B 15:7; Hv 3, 1, 8; 3, 6, 7; 3, 8, 11; 5:5b. τότε πρῶτον then for the first time Ac 11:26 D. πρῶτον … καὶ τότε first … and then (Sir 11:7; Jos., Ant. 13, 187) Mt 5:24; 7:5; 12:29; Mk 3:27; Lk 6:42; IEph 7:2. τότε is correlative w. πρῶτον without καί J 2:10 v.l. Likew. πρῶτον … εἶτα (εἶτεν) first … then (Just., D. 33, 2 al.; s. εἶτα 1) Mk 4:28; 1 Ti 3:10; B 6:17. πρῶτον … ἔπειτα (ἔπειτα 2) 1 Cor 15:46; 1 Th 4:16. πρῶτον … μετὰ ταῦτα Mk 16:9, s. vs. 12. πρῶτον … εἶτα … μετὰ ταῦτα 1 Cl 23:4; 2 Cl 11:3 (in both cases the same prophetic saying of unknown origin). πρῶτον … ἐν τῷ δευτ�*ρῳ Ac 7:12.—Pleonastically πρῶτον πρὸ τοῦ ἀρίστου Lk 11:38.—W. gen. (Chariton 5, 4, 9 cod. πρῶτον τ. λόγων=before it comes to words) ἐμὲ πρῶτον ὑμῶν μεμίσηκεν it hated me before (it hated) you J 15:18 (but s. 1aα).—W. the art. τὸ πρῶτον (Hom. et al.; Jos., Ant. 8, 402; 14, 205) the first time J 10:40; 19:39; at first (Diod. S. 1, 85, 2; Jos., Ant. 2, 340) 12:16; 2 Cl 9:5. τὰ πρῶτα (Hom. et al.; Appian, Syr. 15 §64; Ps.-Phoc. 8) the first time, at first MPol 8:2.
ⓑ of number or sequence (the area within which this sense is valid cannot be marked off w. certainty from the area 1aα)
α. as adj. Mt 21:28; 22:25; Mk 12:20; Lk 14:18; 16:5; 19:16; 20:29; J 19:32; Ac 12:10; 13:33 v.l.; Rv 4:7; 8:7; 21:19; Hs 9, 1, 5. τὸ πρῶτον … τὸ δεύτερον (Alex. Aphr., An. p. 28, 9 Br.) Hb 10:9. On πρώτης τῆς μερίδος Μακεδονίας πόλις Ac 16:12 s. μερίς 1 and RAscough, NTS 44, ’98, 93–103.—Since πρῶτος can stand for πρότερος (s. 1 at beg.; also Mlt-Turner 32), it by no means follows from τὸν μὲν πρῶτον λόγον Ac 1:1 that the writer of Luke and of Ac must have planned to write a third book (Zahn, NKZ 28, 1917, 373ff, Comm. 1919, 16ff holds that he planned to write a third volume; against this view s. EGoodspeed, Introd. to the NT ’37, 189; Haenchen, et al.—Athenaeus 15, 701c mentions the first of Clearchus’ two books on proverbs with the words ἐν τῷ προτ�*ρῳ περὶ παροιμιῶν, but 10, 457c with ἐν τῷ πρώτῳ περὶ παροιμιῶν. Diod. S. 1, 42, 1 the first half of a two-part work is called ἡ πρώτη βίβλος and 3, 1, 1 mentions a division into πρώτη and δευτ�*ρα βίβ. In 13, 103, 3 the designation for the first of two works varies between ἡ πρώτη σύνταξις and ἡ προτ�*ρα ς. See Haenchen on Ac 1:1).—πρῶτος is also used without any thought that the series must continue: τὸν πρῶτον ἰχθύν the very first fish Mt 17:27. αὕτη ἀπογραφὴ πρώτη ἐγ�*νετο Lk 2:2, likewise, does not look forward in the direction of additional censuses, but back to a time when there were none at all (Ael. Aristid. 13 p. 227 D. παράκλησις αὕτη [=challenge to a sea-fight] πρώτη ἐγ�*νετο; for interpolation theory s. JWinandy, RB 104, ’97, 372–77; cp. BPearson, CBQ, ’99, 262--82).—τὰ τείχη τὰ πρῶτα Hs 8, 6, 6 does not contrast the ‘first walls’ w. other walls; rather it distinguishes the only walls in the picture (Hs 8, 7, 3; 8, 8, 3) as one edifice, from the tower as the other edifice.
β. adv., the neuter πρῶτον of sequence in enumerations (not always clearly distinguished fr. sense 1aβ) first πρῶτον ἀποστόλους, δεύτερον προφήτας, τρίτον … 1 Cor 12:28 (Mitt-Wilck. I/2, 20 II, 10ff [II a.d.] τὸ πρ. … τὸ δεύτερον … τὸ τρίτον. Without the art. 480, 12ff [II a.d.]; Diod. S. 36, 7, 3; Tat. 40, 1). See Hb 7:2; Js 3:17.—Not infrequently Paul begins w. πρῶτον μ�*ν without continuing the series, at least in form (B-D-F §447, 4; Rob. 1152. For πρ. without continuation s. Plat., Ep. 7, 337b, Plut., Mor. 87b; Jos., Ant. 1, 182; Ath. 27, 1 πρῶτα μ�*ν) Ro 1:8; 3:2; 1 Cor 11:18. S. also 2 Cl 3:1.
ⓒ of space outer, anterior σκηνὴ ἡ πρώτη the outer tent, i.e. the holy place Hb 9:2; cp. vss. 6, 8.
② pert. to prominence, first, foremost, most important, most prominent
ⓐ adj.
α. of things (Ocellus [II b.c.] 56 Harder [1926] πρώτη κ. μεγίστη φυλακή; Ael. Aristid. 23, 43 K.=42 p. 783 D.: πόλεις; Ezk 27:22; PsSol 17:43; χρυσίον τὸ πρῶτον τίμιον; JosAs 15:10) ἡ μεγάλη καὶ πρώτη ἐντολή Mt 22:38; cp. Mk 12:29. ἐντολὴ πρώτη πάντων vs. 28 (OLehmann, TU 73, ’59, 557–61 [rabb.]; CBurchard, ZNW 61, ’70, cites JosAs 15:10; 18:5). Without superl. force ἐντολὴ πρώτη ἐν ἐπαγγελίᾳ a commandment of great importance, with a promise attached Eph 6:2 (the usual transl. ‘first commandment w. a promise’ [NRSV, REB et al.] loses sight of the fact that Ex 20:4–6=Dt 5:8–10 has an implied promise of the same kind as the one in Ex 20:12=Dt 5:16. πρ. here is best taken in the same sense as in Mk 12:29 above). στολὴν τὴν πρώτην the special robe Lk 15:22 (JosAs 15:10).—ἐν πρώτοις among the first = most important things, i.e. as of first importance 1 Cor 15:3 (Pla., Pol. 522c ὸ̔ καὶ παντὶ ἐν πρώτοις ἀνάγκη μανθάνειν; Epict., Ench. 20; Mitt-Wilck I/2, 14 II, 9 ἐν πρώτοις ἐρωτῶ σε; Josh 9:2d).
β. of persons (Dio Chrys. 19 [36], 35 πρ. καὶ μ�*γιστος θεός; TestAbr B 4 p. 108, 18 [Stone p. 64]; ApcSed 5:2; Jos., Ant. 15, 398; Just., A I, 60, 5 al. τὸν πρῶτον θεόν) ὸ̔ς ἂν θ�*λῃ ἐν ὑμῖν εἶναι πρῶτος whoever wishes to be the first among you Mt 20:27; Mk 10:44; cp. 9:35. πρῶτος Σίμων Mt 10:2 is not meant to indicate the position of Simon in the list, since no other numbers follow, but to single him out as the most prominent of the twelve. W. gen. ὧν (=τῶν ἁμαρτωλῶν) πρῶτός εἰμι 1 Ti 1:15. Pl. (οἱ) πρῶτοι in contrast to (οἱ) ἔσχατοι Mt 19:30; 20:16; Mk 9:35; 10:31; Lk 13:30; Ox 654, 25f (cp. GTh 4; sim. Sallust. 9 p. 16, 21f τοῖς ἐσχάτοις … τοῖς πρώτοις; s. ἔσχατος 2).—αἱ πρώται prominent women (in the phrase γυναικῶν τε τῶν πρώτων οὐκ ὀλίγαι) Ac 17:4 (s. New Docs 1, 72). οἱ πρῶτοι the most prominent men, the leading men w. gen. of place (Jos., Ant. 7, 230 τῆς χώρας) οἱ πρ. τῆς Γαλιλαίας Mk 6:21; cp. Ac 13:50 (in phrasing sim. to πολλὰς μὲν γυναῖκας εὐγενεῖς καὶ τῶν πρώτων ἀνδρῶν ἤισχυναν=‘they dishonored many well-born women as well as men of high station’ Theopomp.: 115 Fgm. 121 Jac. p. 563, 33f), or of a group (Strabo 13, 2, 3 οἱ πρ. τῶν φίλων; Jos., Ant. 20, 180) οἱ πρ. τοῦ λαοῦ (Jos., Ant. 11, 141) Lk 19:47; cp. Ac 25:2; 28:17. On ὁ πρῶτος τῆς νήσου vs. 7 (πρῶτος Μελιταίων IGR I, 512=IG XIV, 601; cp. CB I/2, 642 no. 535 ὁ πρῶτος ἐν τῇ πόλει; p. 660 no. 616; SEG XLI, 1345, 14f; cp. CIL X, 7495, 1; s. Hemer, Acts 153, n. 152; Warnecke, Romfahrt 119ff) s. �*όπλιος.
ⓑ adv. πρῶτον of degree in the first place, above all, especially (Jos., Ant. 10, 213) ζητεῖτε πρῶτον τὴν βασιλείαν Mt 6:33. Ἰουδαίῳ τε πρῶτον καὶ Ἕλληνι Ro 1:16; cp. 2:9f.—Ac 3:26; 2 Pt 1:20; 3:3. Of the Macedonian Christians ἑαυτοὺς ἔδωκαν πρῶτον τῷ κυρίῳ καὶ ἡμῖν they gave themselves first of all to the Lord, and (then) to us 2 Cor 8:5. παρακαλῶ πρῶτον πάντων first of all I urge 1 Ti 2:1.—B. 939. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Sv.

Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. 2000. A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. "Based on Walter Bauer's Griechisch-deutsches Wr̲terbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der frhüchristlichen [sic] Literatur, sixth edition, ed. Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, with Viktor Reichmann and on previous English editions by W.F. Arndt, F.W. Gingrich, and F.W. Danker." (3rd ed.) . University of Chicago Press: Chicago


JW:
The emphasis of the BDAG (it's my BDAG baby!) classification of 2:2 as "first" is mine saith the Lord. Fortunately for you such classification by a Christian Lexicon is not necessarily authoritative to me.

As all can see "first" is the meaning of the root and the Primary meaning of the word. "Foremost" is a secondary meaning but does have a lot of examples. Therefore, "first" is the default meaning. In order to distinguish a secondary meaning from a primary phrasing is often Limited for recognition purposes. At your Blog I don't see where you have given an example of use of the same phrasing as 2:2 where the Context clearly supports "foremost".

Maybe you want to change your mind about the definite article.



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

JoeWallack

JW:
Perhaps you'd be kind enough to stop wasting time Jeff. Just tell us what you think of Carlson's Defense here.

By The Way, I had to laugh. I was flipping channels and came to the scene in Weird Science where one of the Hipsters in the Bar says to Kelly LeBrock, "So, what are doing with these two Milakahs."



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

jgibson000

Once again, the name is Jeffrey, not Jeff.

And if anyone is wasting time, it seems to be you -- both in mislableing things (your post was not a look at the grammar of the text) and then not actually doing what you say you are going to do (providing us with an analysis of that text's grammar and what actual grammatical considerations render your idea of what the text says more likely that what Stephen says it means).

Since you seem to be claiming that Stephen Carlson's "defense" of a reading of Lk 2:1-2 is ungrammatical, it's up to you to specify exactly -- with actual refernce to the specific rules of Koine Grammar and syntax -- why you think this is the case?

Your claim, your burden.

Jeffrey

JoeWallack

JW:
Here we go Stephen, all uses of the offending word in "Luke" (yea, I know I don't have Acts here):

Emphasis mine saith the Lord.

NESTLE-ALAND
GREEK NEW TESTAMENT
27TH EDITION
with GRAMCORD™ Greek New Testament Alpha Morphological Database
and the McReynolds English Interlinear
Former Editions edited by
Kurt Aland, Matthew Black, Carlo M. Martini Bruce M. Metzger, and Allen Wikgren
Fourth Revised Edition edited by
Barbara Aland, Kurt Aland, Johannes Karavidopoulos, Carlo M. Martini, and Bruce M. Metzger
in cooperation with the
Institute for New Testament Textual Research, Münster/Westphalia
DEUTSCHE BIBELGESELLSCHAFT UNITED BIBLE SOCIETIES
Aland, B., Aland, K., Black, M., Martini, C. M., Metzger, B. M., & Wikgren, A. 1993, c1979. The Greek New Testament (4th ed.). United Bible Societies: Federal Republic of Germany

adverb, no degree or a positive degree πρῶτον

Luke 6:42 πῶς δύνασαι λ�*γειν τῷ ἀδελφῷ σου, Ἀδελφ�*, ἄφες ἐκβάλω τὸ κάρφος τὸ ἐν τῷ ὀφθαλμῷ σου, αὐτὸς τὴν ἐν τῷ ὀφθαλμῷ σοῦ δοκὸν οὐ βλ�*πων; ὑποκριτά, ἔκβαλε πρῶτον τὴν δοκὸν ἐκ τοῦ ὀφθαλμοῦ σοῦ, καὶ τότε διαβλ�*ψεις τὸ κάρφος τὸ ἐν τῷ ὀφθαλμῷ τοῦ ἀδελφοῦ σου ἐκβαλεῖν.

42 Or how can you say to your neighbor,g ‘Friend,hlet me take out the speck in your eye,’ when you yourself do not see the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’si eye.

NRSV (all)


Luke 9:59 Εἶπεν δὲ πρὸς ἕτερον, Ἀκολούθει μοι. ὁ δὲ εἶπεν, [Κύριε,] ἐπίτρεψόν μοι ἀπελθόντι πρῶτον θάψαι τὸν πατ�*ρα μου.

59 To another he said, “Follow me.” But he said, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”


Luke 9:61 Εἶπεν δὲ καὶ ἕτερος, Ἀκολουθήσω σοι, κύριε· πρῶτον δὲ ἐπίτρεψόν μοι ἀποτάξασθαι τοῖς εἰς τὸν οἶκόν μου.

61 Another said, “I will follow you, Lord; but let me first say farewell to those at my home.”


Luke 10:5 εἰς ἣν δ᾽ ἂν εἰσ�*λθητε οἰκίαν, πρῶτον λ�*γετε, Εἰρήνη τῷ οἴκῳ τούτῳ.

5 Whatever house you enter, first say, ‘Peace to this house!’


Luke 11:38 ὁ δὲ Φαρισαῖος ἰδὼν ἐθαύμασεν ὅτι οὐ πρῶτον ἐβαπτίσθη πρὸ τοῦ ἀρίστου.

38 The Pharisee was amazed to see that he did not first wash before dinner.


Luke 12:1 Ἐν οἷς ἐπισυναχθεισῶν τῶν μυριάδων τοῦ ὄχλου, ὥστε καταπατεῖν ἀλλήλους, ἤρξατο λ�*γειν πρὸς τοὺς μαθητὰς αὐτοῦ πρῶτον, �*ροσ�*χετε ἑαυτοῖς ἀπὸ τῆς ζύμης, ἥτις ἐστὶν ὑπόκρισις, τῶν Φαρισαίων.

12 Meanwhile, when the crowd gathered by the thousands, so that they trampled on one another, he began to speak first to his disciples, “Beware of the yeast of the Pharisees, that is, their hypocrisy.


Luke 14:28 τίς γὰρ ἐξ ὑμῶν θ�*λων πύργον οἰκοδομῆσαι οὐχὶ πρῶτον καθίσας ψηφίζει τὴν δαπάνην, εἰ ἔχει εἰς ἀπαρτισμόν;

28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not first sit down and estimate the cost, to see whether he has enough to complete it?


Luke 14:31 ἢ τίς βασιλεὺς πορευόμενος ἑτ�*ρῳ βασιλεῖ συμβαλεῖν εἰς πόλεμον οὐχὶ καθίσας πρῶτον βουλεύσεται εἰ δυνατός ἐστιν ἐν δ�*κα χιλιάσιν ὑπαντῆσαι τῷ μετὰ εἴκοσι χιλιάδων ἐρχομ�*νῳ ἐπ᾽ αὐτόν;

31 Or what king, going out to wage war against another king, will not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to oppose the one who comes against him with twenty thousand?


Luke 17:25 πρῶτον δὲ δεῖ αὐτὸν πολλὰ παθεῖν καὶ ἀποδοκιμασθῆναι ἀπὸ τῆς γενεᾶς ταύτης.

25 But first he must endure much suffering and be rejected by this generation.


Luke 21:9 ὅταν δὲ ἀκούσητε πολ�*μους καὶ ἀκαταστασίας, μὴ πτοηθῆτε· δεῖ γὰρ ταῦτα γεν�*σθαι πρῶτον, ἀλλ᾽ οὐκ εὐθ�*ως τὸ τ�*λος.

9 “When you hear of wars and insurrections, do not be terrified; for these things must take place first, but the end will not follow immediately.”


adjective, feminine, singular, accusative, no degree or
a positive degree πρώτην

Luke 15:22 εἶπεν δὲ ὁ πατὴρ πρὸς τοὺς δούλους αὐτοῦ, Ταχὺ ἐξεν�*γκατε στολὴν τὴν πρώτην καὶ ἐνδύσατε αὐτόν, καὶ δότε δακτύλιον εἰς τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ καὶ ὑποδήματα εἰς τοὺς πόδας,

22 But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly, bring out a robe—the best one—and put it on him; put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.


adjective, feminine, singular, nominative, no degree or
a positive degree πρώτη

Luke 2:2
αὕτη ἀπογραφὴ πρώτη ἐγ�*νετο ἡγεμονεύοντος τῆς Συρίας Κυρηνίου.

2 This was the first registration and was taken while Quirinius was governor of Syria.


adjective, masculine, plural, nominative, no degree or
a positive degree πρῶτοι

Luke 13:30 (2)
καὶ ἰδοὺ εἰσὶν ἔσχατοι οἳ ἔσονται πρῶτοι καὶ εἰσὶν πρῶτοι οἳ ἔσονται ἔσχατοι.

30 Indeed, some are last who will be first, and some are first who will be last.”


Luke 19:47
Καὶ ἦν διδάσκων τὸ καθ᾽ ἡμ�*ραν ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ. οἱ δὲ ἀρχιερεῖς καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν ἀπολ�*σαι καὶ οἱ πρῶτοι τοῦ λαοῦ,

47 Every day he was teaching in the temple. The chief priests, the scribes, and the leaders of the people kept looking for a way to kill him;


adjective, masculine, singular, dative, no degree or
a positive degree πρώτῳ

Luke 16:5 καὶ προσκαλεσάμενος ἕνα ἕκαστον τῶν χρεοφειλετῶν τοῦ κυρίου ἑαυτοῦ ἔλεγεν τῷ πρώτῳ, �*όσον ὀφείλεις τῷ κυρίῳ μου;

5 So, summoning his master’s debtors one by one, he asked the first, ‘How much do you owe my master?’


adjective, masculine, singular, nominative, no degree or
a positive degree πρῶτος


Luke 14:18
καὶ ἤρξαντο ἀπὸ μιᾶς πάντες παραιτεῖσθαι. ὁ πρῶτος εἶπεν αὐτῷ, Ἀγρὸν �*γόρασα καὶ ἔχω ἀνάγκην ἐξελθὼν ἰδεῖν αὐτόν· ἐρωτῶ σε, ἔχε με παρῃτημ�*νον.

18 But they all alike began to make excuses. The first said to him, ‘I have bought a piece of land, and I must go out and see it; please accept my regrets.’


Luke 19:16
παρεγ�*νετο δὲ ὁ πρῶτος λ�*γων, Κύριε, ἡ μνᾶ σου δ�*κα προσηργάσατο μνᾶς.

16 The first came forward and said, ‘Lord, your pound has made ten more pounds.’


Luke 20:29
ἑπτὰ οὖν ἀδελφοὶ ἦσαν· καὶ ὁ πρῶτος λαβὼν γυναῖκα ἀπ�*θανεν ἄτεκνος·

29 Now there were seven brothers; the first married, and died childless;


adjective, neuter, plural, genitive, no degree or
a positive degree πρώτων

Luke 11:26
τότε πορεύεται καὶ παραλαμβάνει ἕτερα πνεύματα πονηρότερα ἑαυτοῦ ἑπτὰ καὶ εἰσελθόντα κατοικεῖ ἐκεῖ· καὶ γίνεται τὰ ἔσχατα τοῦ ἀνθρώπου ἐκείνου χείρονα τῶν πρώτων.

26 Then it goes and brings seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and live there; and the last state of that person is worse than the first.”


JW:
I count 16 meanings of "first" without 2:2 and two of "foremost". After you consider if the First reference, 6:42, is just a coincidence, were you planning on giving this statistic in a later Blog?

Now your two hits:

Luke 15:22 εἶπεν δὲ ὁ πατὴρ πρὸς τοὺς δούλους αὐτοῦ, Ταχὺ ἐξεν�*γκατε στολὴν τὴν πρώτην καὶ ἐνδύσατε αὐτόν, καὶ δότε δακτύλιον εἰς τὴν χεῖρα αὐτοῦ καὶ ὑποδήματα εἰς τοὺς πόδας,

22 But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quickly, bring out a robe—the best one—and put it on him; put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet.

Luke 19:47
Καὶ ἦν διδάσκων τὸ καθ᾽ ἡμ�*ραν ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ. οἱ δὲ ἀρχιερεῖς καὶ οἱ γραμματεῖς ἐζήτουν αὐτὸν ἀπολ�*σαι καὶ οἱ πρῶτοι τοῦ λαοῦ,

47 Every day he was teaching in the temple. The chief priests, the scribes, and the leaders of the people kept looking for a way to kill him;

There's a most important difference here in grammar compared to 2:2 (no, not the use of the definite article first which is another problem). Can you or Jeff tell me what it is or have you not got this far yet?



Joseph

http://www.errancywiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

jgibson000

Since there is no one who has written to you under the name "Jeff", and since there is no one here who goes by it, why, save for a studied perversity and a tendendy on your part to be a TRIMALAKA, are you calling on "Jeff" to answer your question?

If you are referring to me, why do you insist on, and persist in, being a putz?

Jeffrey Gibson

gregor

Dr. Gibson
Could you post a link to any comment that you've provided on any thread at IIDB that is actually, substantively helpful in addressing an issue being discussed?
Thanks in advance.