dog-on

Now you provide evidence where you think that the author thinks he is talking about a real person.

Toto

The evidence is in the gospels. The gospels are not just regular history embellished with a few supernatural events or explanations for events. They are full of supernatural events, and their form and structure are derived directly from the Hebrew Scriptures. And each gospel writer feels free to alter the story for his or her own theological purposes.

The vaunted scholarly consensus that GDon wants to rely on supports this idea of the gospels. Most of these scholars are not ready to challenge the idea that there is a historical figure behind the myths in the gospels, but they have no idea who he is or where to find him.

aa5874

The EVIDENCE STARES YOU IN THE FACE.

Matthew 1.18 is NOT about a real person.

Luke 1.35 is NOT about a real person.

John 1.1-3 is NOT about a real person.

Mark 6.49 is NOT about a real person.

People here did NOT invent the EVIDENCE for MYTH JESUS.

But, on the other hand, people here INVENT HJ from their imagination WITHOUT a single shred of credible evidence from antiquity.

In Antiquity, even PHANTOMS appeared to be REAL. It is time to stop living in the 1st century.

Juststeve

Dog-On:

The proposition to be defended is that the Gospel writers did not believe they were writing about a real person. That you and I agree that what Matthew said about Jesus is unlikely to be true is no evidence whatsoever that Matthew didn't think Jesus was a real person. People make fanciful claims about other people all the time. That doesn't mean they don't believe they are talking about a real person.

Mind you I am not suggesting that the mere fact that Matthew though Jesus was real means he was real. He could conceivably been wrong about even that. I am suggesting that it is rather foolish for either you or Doug to try to read the mind of a long dead writer, who you can't even identify, and say what he thought. Maybe is such a power that sets the mythers apart.

Steve

Juststeve

Toto:

The question is not whether the Gospels are accurate history, neither of us think they are. The question is what did the authors think about whether Jesus was a real guy or someone they were making up. If you can show evidence from the gospels which indicates that the writers didn't think they were writing about someone who had actually existed, have at it. So far no one has.

Steve

dog-on

I quoted Mark.

Regardless, if I wrote that, I seriously doubt that I would actually believe that I was writing about a real person.

So, all you need do is to provide a statement from Mark where he claims that he is writing about a real person.

You are simply assuming that he did. I do not hold to such a low opinion of the intelligence author, as an a priori belief.

Toto

I think you are trying to shift the burden of proof, and then raise the burden so high that no one can meet it.

What is your evidence that the gospel writers thought that they were writing about a historical Jesus? Start with Mark, since Mark was the source for the later gospels.

Juststeve

Toto:

I was responding to Doug's comment at 447 worship-fully endorsed by Dog-On. It was Doug's claim that the Gospel writers themselves didn't think they were writing about a real person. I do not believe that he has any evidential basis for making that absurd claim but since he is a myther he receives worship-full support from Dog-On and the usual blocking from you.

Since you recognize that no one can meet the burden of showing that the gospel writers didn't believe in an existent Jesus the intellectually honest thing to do would be to agree that Doug overstated his case quite a bit.

Steve

Toto

No one can meet the burden of proof if you define it to require mind reading. But certainly one can infer what the author of Mark meant by reading what he wrote. I infer from the gospel of Mark that the author was not writing about a real, historical person.

Is there any contrary indication that Mark was writing about a historical person?

Kapyong

Gday,

Yup.
Some people DO believe Sherlock Holmes existed - they write letters to him :

http://openlibrary.org/books/OL25731...herlock_Holmes


K.