spamandham

I have posted/observed several threads here regarding a Mythical vs. Historical Jesus. If I may be so bold (please correct me if I'm wrong), the historical consensus is that Jesus actually existed as a man. He was a wandering preacher in the first century who ended up crucified under Pilate, and sparked a new religious movement.

I have sensed not only here, but also in books released/upcoming and in papers reported to be forthcoming, new emphasis on the MJ position. As a somewhat unbiased layman, the MJ arguments seem to be better formed than the HJ arguments. I place that in italics, because this could simply be a matter of success on the part of MJers to spread their position, whereas the HJers see no threat and so do not bother to support their position with as much force in the public eye.

This question then is directed primarily at those who think they have particular relevant expertise. In your opinion, is the tide turning toward a MJ position? Please be so kind as to support your position either way. Thanks!

GakuseiDon

I don't think the tide is turning. There just isn't much evidence for a historical Jesus, so there isn't much to talk about after the usual suspects have been discussed. Whether that is enough to be convincing is in the eye of the beholder I suppose. All the most interesting speculation revolves around the MJ, so it tends to get discussed more. Perhaps it's more accurate to say that the MJ tide is rising?

rlogan

This generation shall not sleep before these things come to pass.

aa5874

You have it completely wrong. There were many concepts of the Christ, and none of the early concepts included a 'wandering preacher'.

Some concepts claim the Christ was unbegotten, others as an apparition. There were magicians who claimed to be the Sons of God, some even claim that the Christ came in the shape of a dove during baptism and entered physical bodies. See 'Against Heresies' by Irenaeus, circa 130-202 CE.

Your 'wandering preacher' is definitely not a representation of the Christ at all.

There is no HJ position. The experts have all failed because there is no evidence to support HJ, and the Bible is not a credible source of information.

Amaleq13

Unless you reject the existence of the sayings source thought to have been shared by the authors of Matthew and Luke, the depiction of Jesus in Q stands as an exception to your assertion.

aa5874

The Christ was the begotten, born of the Spirit, Son of God, miracle worker, resurected and ascended, according to the scripture. No such person can be verified to have existed.

spamandham

I'm referring to the present day consensus among historians, which may or may not have any basis in reality.

wordy

Fundies prefer to support a HJ as I remember. Some Liberal Christians seems to accept that Jesus could be all mythical but they seems to think God to be real but maybe the nature of God to be unknown to us.

Most atheists see Jesus as a myth except a few who find it probable that there could have been such a historical person but that he most likely had neither Joseph nor God as father or Mary as mother.

Christians would have it hard to be fully supportable of a MJ cause that would take away the promises would it not? Could you site a famous Christian that is a trusted leader of a church or congregation that support a MJ?

aa5874

You mean consensus among Christians. Who are these historians and where is the evidence? There were many persons called Jesus, which one of them is the Christ?

There is one in Matthew, another in Luke, one more in John and no-one can tell where Mark got his from.

The Gospels are contradictory and inconsistent. It cannot be verified which parts are true.

Toto

The present day consensus among historians, not all of whom are Christian, is that Jesus was a shadowy figure with a carismatic personality who preached and was executed and inspired some of his followers to start a new religion. The gospels are not considered to be historically reliable, so differences among them are just the normal process of historical exaggeration and legendary accretion. This is the Will Durant version of Jesus - a great man who affected history, and is not necessarily compatible with the Christian Jesus.

I don't think that the MJ proposal is anywhere close to overturning this. It has the status of an endearing folk legend.