MxM111

It is like saying that the beginning of Z coordinate has to be the beginning of Y coordinate. They are not related at all! They are "orthogonal". Same with times.

post tenebras lux

No, I think he's thinking of them as if they were train tracks. At whatever point in God-time the start of our-time occured, then you can consider that point to be a sort of junction and any 'backwards-in-time' travelling train running down our-timetrack would reach the junction and then automatically continue travelling 'backwards-in-time' down the God-timetrack to its (the God-timetrack) beginning. Therefore the beginning of God-time can fairly be considered to also be the beginning of our-time, even if God-time and our-time didn't split until much later - at the junction.

MxM111

It looks like he is thinking like that, and I think it is his mistake. In my counter-example I am not talking about "train tracks"-type times, but rather about two orthogonal time axes. In the same why, as you can not make X and Y into tracks, you can't (in my example) make our time and god's time into tracks.

aguy2

re: temporal looping
I would think that when considering the possibility of temporal looping, we should consider 2 salient points:
1) Physics has shown that there appears to be no intrinsic constraits that would disallow the possibility of temporal looping.
2) Nonetheless there is no observational evidence of naturally occuring temporal loops.

If both these points represent the actual case, then I would be led to the conclusion that if temporal looping is to occur, it will be as an artifice of volition.
aguy2

post tenebras lux

There is a point, J_o, which is the instance that (our) time started in our-time and the corresponding point J_g in god-time (i.e. the instance in god-time that god decided to create our-time). If you are trying to look it like an X-Y chart, then J_o is the start point of our time: if this is where the god-time and our-time axes were to cross then there is no negative our-time line running off on the other side of the god-time line. Even if the god-time line stretches to infinity in both directions, our-time (if we're keeping up the claim that god created our-time) has a start point and, if it does run off to infinity, it can only run off to positive infinity. If there was a second body (a clock that works in both god-time and our-time, say) travelling along god-time with god, then at point J_g, god could have taken this clock and placed it in our-time at point J_o so that it could start travelling along our-time whilst no longer travelling along god-time. If we were to take that clock and run it backwards it would count down to zero in our-time, which will take it back to point J_o (in our-time). Once it has counted down to J_o in our-time, it can go no further back in our-time and it will start to count down from J_g (in god-time) to negative infinity in god-time, just as - prior to god taking it from god-time at point J_g (in god-time) and placing it in our-time at point J_o (in our-time) - it had been counting up from negative infinity step-by-step with god in god-time.

To me, J_g/J_o seems very like a junction, as it is certainly a fixed point on both the god-time line and our-time line.

With this proposed model, involving our-time and god-time, can god travel backwards and forth in god-time? I see problems with both a YES or a NO answer to that question.

Oxymoron

Notwithstanding the thorny question of who created god-time, or the ordered processes by which god presumably has to use and operate within.

MxM111

God time by definition is part of God. God by definition always existed in his time (just for this counter-example, I personally do not believe that this is probable)

MxM111

In order for back-traveling clock to do it, one needs again God (or somebody else) action to push the clock from our time to God's time.

Just for the Draygomb paradox, it is sufficient to answer no, God can not travel back in his time. There is no problem with that, except that God would not be able interact with our universe, because our universe is "back in time" in God's time. But this is sufficient to brake the Draygomb paradox itself.

If the answer is yes, it can travel back in time to influence our universe, we get that "killing grandfather" paradox.

To avoid the grandfather paradox, and still make God being able to influence our universe there are 3 possibilities:

1) Looped God time. Imagine God time being in the loop, and this loop periodically crosses our time axis. The God's trajectory in time space would look something like spiral, around a cylinder, which is 2-D space representing the time space. To travel in our time you have to travel "along" this cylinder, to travel in God's time you travel "around" cylinder. "Along" this cylinder there is a line of our time, and spiraling around the cylinder there is the god's trajectory which travels both in our time and God's time. It is possible to imagine that before our time creation, the God's time was not looped, but at the moment of our time creation God has looped his own time precisely for the reason to be able influence our world.

2) After creation of our time, God have got the ability to travel back in his time. However, he can not travel back in his and our time, i.e. in 2-D semi-plain of time, he can not revisit any point. For example, while traveling back in his time, he always have to travel forward in our time. In some sense his time for him become more like space coordinate - we do not have any problem traveling back an forth in X-coordinate, as long as we travel forward in our time. Yet his time is still time coordinate, e.g. if things are left unattended in his time, they would move forward (in his time) with constant speed by themselves.

3) Similar to 2, but our universe moves with constant speed both in our time and in god's time. God does not need to travel back in any time to cross our time line, which is at 45 degrees to both times. God just changes the ratio of him traveling along any axis of time, while we always travel with the same speed with ratio of 1 (or any other fixed ratio).

Uph-fff, this is quite long and completely crazy post

Draygomb

In the Clap Bang model each time the universe collapses into a singularity would be the same point in time for each loop.

Draygomb

If said clock had a printout of times it had passed through one would see the beginning of God's Time on it.