Starboy

Look, if I think Christians suck, well then that is what I think. If I think religion is a disease, well then that is what I think. If what I think insults theists, well then too bad. They insult atheists all the time with what they think and are completely oblivious to it. I don�t have to put up with it. Besides, last time I checked, this was an atheist site. It is not unreasonable for an atheist to not think much of theists. It is unreasonable for a theist to expect to not encounter such atheists on an atheist site. In the few instances that I do encounter a civil theist, then I am civil, but the vast majority of them just don�t understand how insulting their presuppositions about atheists can be and when they do insult us they have no right to think we do not have good reason to feel insulted. Civility is a two way street. I always try to give better than I get.

Starboy

demoninho

Starboy...come on it's all part of the evil atheist complot(tm)....

seebs

Do you feel the same way about the way some theists feel about atheists? If they really do think that atheism is a disease, a sickness, or a curse, do you figure that's fine?

And once again, you do exactly the thing you're complaining about; painting the whole group with a broad brush.

Unexpected? No. Unreasonable? Probably, for the same reason that I think it's unreasonable for theists to not think much of atheists. Forming an opinion of an entire category of people based on a single trait is almost always unreasonable.

I am not aware of any particular "presuppositions" I have about atheists, but you've always been a jerk to me. I guess you're giving better than you get.

Maybe instead of defining "better" as "more hostility", you should define it in terms of some kind of moral high ground, or "better standard of behavior".

brighid

Your remarks remind of a petulent child, throwing a tempertantrum when he can't get his way. It is exactly your "too bad" attitude and theists should "expect" to be treated this way that makes it entirely difficult to have any confidence that you "always give better then you get." I seen what you have given and it is no wonder you get unpleasant responses in return. Another self-fulfilling prophecy. It's too bad that you don't seem to understand that your defensive posturing, even before provoked by actual proselytizing, etc. is case in point for why you have so many negative experiences with theists.

Let's turn your ideas around and put them from a Christian perspective ... maybe we could even test this out in another forum and see how atheists would react to the exact same thinking about them:

Look, if I think atheist suck, well then that is what I think. If I think atheism is a disease, well then that is what I think. If what I think insults atheists, well then too bad. They insult theists all the time with what they think and are completely oblivious to it (although how on Earth can what they think, unless expressed cause insult to anyone - do you read minds now Starboy, or is that an assumption on your part because they believe in God and therefore MUST think you are some evil man?) . Cnristians don�t have to put up with it. Besides, last time I checked, this was an Christian country. It is not unreasonable for a theist to not think much of atheists. It is unreasonable for an atheist to expect to not encounter such theists in a Christian country. In the few instances that I do encounter a civil atheist, then I am civil, but the vast majority of them just don�t understand how insulting their presuppositions about theists can be and when they do insult us they have no right to think we do not have good reason to feel insulted. Civility is a two way street. I always try to give better than I get.

Brighid

Starboy

Here's a "presupposition" for you. That giving as good as you get only applies to aggressive behavior.

Starboy

livius drusus

Again, this presupposition hinges on how you define aggressive behavior. You said theists "insult atheists all the time with what they think and are completely oblivious to it." (emphasis mine) That doesn't say anything about aggressive behavior. The insult lies in expressing the thought.

Starboy

Brighid, are you my mammy? If you are, get a load of your son. He is big old and ugly, wears glasses, and has a beard, and two kids in college. Look if there are people out there that don�t think much of atheists, and of course there are a great number that don�t, it doesn�t bother me as long as they respect my right to be an atheist. I will also respect their right to be whatever they are. And as long as both of us behave in a manner that respects our rights under the law and the constitution rather than trying to impose the law of god onto everyone else, then as long as they keep it to themselves, what they think doesn�t bother me at all. You see brighid, I got over the idea that everybody must like me a long time ago. We live in a society that contains all sorts of groups that do not think much of each other, but as long as they respect the law then we will have a civil society. It is when groups hold themselves above the law by invoking what they see as the law of god is when we get in real trouble. The problem with most theism in general is that we are in constant danger from theists of that very thing.

Also, I do not seek theists out to confront them on their ideas nor do I openly proclaim that I am an atheist. However if I am asked I will tell them I am an atheist and if they are uncivil I will take offence and give them what for. If they tell me they are Christian my response is usually, �Oh� or �I thought so� or nothing at all.

For the record, I want to be very clear on this. As long as theists do not violate the law of the land by insisting that the law of god takes precedence and then imposing their law/morality on everyone else then I am fine with them. The moment they cross the line, they are fair game for whatever remedy is necessary. This does not mean that I am for elimination of theists just because they are theists. For some reason drusus has poisoned the well by insisting that I advocated eliminating theists just for being theists. I don�t know what the deal with drusus is but I wish (s)he would cut it out.

Starboy

Majestyk

Never underestimate the human capacity for, denial.

brighid

Starboy,

I don't think one actually needs to be a mother to recognize the behaviors of another acting like a petulant child.

Livius has not poisoned the well against you, unless of course quoting you verbatim is poisoning the well. Your insistence that you are being attacked and persecuted is not founded in reality. However, I can understand if one is always on the defensive and looking for the negative that it is likely one could come to a similar conclusion.

Surely, if livius wished to attack you, it would be so obvious that not even a blind and deaf man would be able to deny it. She is handling you with kid gloves, believe you me, she hasn't even given you a tiny taste of what it's like to be attacked, demonized, or otherwise.

Brighid

wildernesse

No, I'm just trying to say that your previous post that included:

was factually wrong, according to the site I posted. That's all.

--tibac