TedM

That's funny. First of all there is nothing illogical or contradictory in what I wrote. Your claim of such is baffling and hurts your credibility further. In reality I'm trying to save you from yourself!


No, the writers of GJohn and John1 and 2Peter and 1 Corinthians all claim to have seen Jesus. The fact that you aren't aware of this shows how limited your study has been.


Did any say that he wrote in the 2nd century, aa? The Church Fathers nearly universally always recognized Paul's writings as authentic and dated in the mid 1st century.


The evidence is not solid. It is based on a conspiracy theory mindset that include things like a need for the Romans to have a Jewish Savior since the Jewish Temple fell. What other wild conspiracy theories do you believe? Roswell aliens? The Illuminati? Faked Moon Landing?


Why in the world would you expect papyri to be found dated to the 1st century when most of what was found in the 2nd century was just small pieces? It's corruptible aa. Few survived. To rely on this as some kind of evidence for the origins of the works is a mistake.

Sheshbazzar

Yes Tanya, it was mere mortal humans that invented and place the Name in the place that they chose, and for millenia treated it with the utmost reverence for what it signified to them.

In times of victory The Name YHWH was praised, and in times of defeat, sorrow, and abject need, The Name YHWH was implored.

That has been the cultural heritage of the Hebrew people, of the nation which became Israel from its inception, and down through the ages.
The Torah and its myths are first and foremost the ancient cultural heritage of the Hebrews and of MY people Israel, and then of all nations of the earth.
Among Hebrew people our names are not just meaningless pretty sounding but empty noises, but are distinctive, filled with meaning, and seldom exchangable.

In the mythical Hebrew 'Abraham', all of mankind was given access to One heritage in One faith if only they should speak and say; "Our father Abraham"
And as it was predicted, billions now do.

For the promise was, and the promise remains to "whomsoever will" out of all the nations of the earth, and The Law was established;

'The stranger who dwells among you shall be to you as one born among you, and you shall love him as yourself;'

This prayer also remains for a witness of my nation, and of my peoples good will towards all peoples of good will out of all nations everywhere;

'Moreover, concerning a foreigner, who is not of Your people Israel, but has come from a far country FOR THE SAKE OF YOUR GREAT NAME and Your mighty hand and Your outstretched arm, when they come and pray in this temple;
Then hear from heaven Your dwelling place, and do according to all for which the foreigner calls to You,'

And in The Prophets;

"Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, in the place where it was said unto them; You are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, You are the sons of the living Elohim."

"For it shall come to pass That whosoever calls on the name YHWH, Shall BE Delivered.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As YHWH has said, Among the remnant whom YHWH calls."

"The Gentiles shall come to You from the ends of the earth and say; "Surely our fathers have inherited lies, worthlessness and unprofitable things."

I am one from among those gentiles, and thus I now say.
My gentile fathers, and the false preachers of this gentile nation into which I was born have all too long lied, falsified, and willfully corrupted the words of the Scriptures by their 'Versions' and perverted the the truths of the Hebrews and of Israel's heritage and history.

"Therefore with joy we draw water out of the wells of the Yeshuah. (Deliverance)
And in this day we say: "Confess YHWH, call upon his NAME;
We declare His deeds among the peoples,
and call to remembrance that His NAME is to be set on high." (cf IsaYAH 12:4-5)

Do I in this therefore say that there -is- a YHWH ?
No. I say that there is a NAME 'YHWH', and that NAME exists and -alone- is THE 'zikarone', a fixed permanent cultural MEMORIAL Name to my people, and a historical and literary heritage to all the nations of the earth in all generations. As such it should not be obscured.

The NAME of itself has never done no man no evil. But as a memorial it has stood as beacon for all who would ever stand fast in its defense.
It is men who have trespassed against, and whom have wrought their evil against their fellow man, and against The Name YHWH.

YHWH alone -is- the proper name of the 'Holy One of Israel'
The ONE Name that in and of itself can set men free from anything else that men would think to call their Elohim or 'Gawd' or 'Baal'.

There is nothing to it other than for men to stop lying about or using pagan substitutes for this Hebrew MEMORIAL Name.

The culture of the Hebrews and of ancient Israel is a cultural heritage of all humanity, all who would treat it with respect, and appreciation for what it was, and the hopes for mankind, 'ALL NATIONS' that it represents. And stop perverting it with their foreign beliefs, philosophies, and misrepresentations of our beliefs and practices.

When the NAME of our cultural Elohim, 'YHWH' is obscured, the most important matter that has ever existed in Hebrew/Israeli culture and history is obscured.


The Bible from Genesis on tells you that the Israelites would fall away and fail and be scattered and put to open shame.
Why should you expect anything different? If you scorn them, and mock their religion, you only fill up the prophecies.

The numbers and measures are NOT mumbo jumbo my dear, nor are they "magic" numbers. These maths and the ethics behind them are as old as human civilization.

The 'builders rule' of 3-4-5 applied with the law of equity has been known to mankind from time immemorial.
Every foursquare Foundation that is is laid, is laid to the line, 3 equal units on this side, 4 equal units on that side, and 5 equal units on the diagonal, the perimeter being always 12 perfectly equal units. The angles so formed 30, 60, 90.

The basis of every square corner is therefore 3 and 4, the sum of which is 7, the reason there are 7 days in the week, even thousands of years before there ever was a Hebrew, a 'Jew', or a written Torah.

It is not "magic" numbers, it is simple plane geometry and math. The face of a square has 4 sides and 360 degrees, 6 such faces form a cube, the sum of whose angles is 2160 degrees. 6 faces make up a cube, the 7th is by nature 'set-apart', as not being able to be included.

Like a square, 15 full days contains 360 hours, as it were 4 lines of 90 hours.
6 squares of 360 hours make a 'cube' of 90 days or 2160 hours. The 7th square of 360 hours makes up 105 days, or 15 full weeks, or 2520 hours.
The half being 7.5 weeks, 52.5 days, or 1260 hours.

Within this matrix are 15 'set-apart' squares of 24 hours, these are the 'sabbaths' which in 15 weeks total 15, and contain 360 hours. This being a circle or circuit of sabbaths complete.
360 weeks are 2520 days. 3,628,800 minutes. 217,728,000 seconds.
That would be 168 divisions of 360 hours, or 15 days, or 15 divisions of 168 days (24 weeks). 360 sabbaths totaling 8,640 hours.

No "magic" numbers involved , A child of of 10 years age 6000 years ago would have been expected to know these things, and how to be able to calculate them with equity on the 10 digits of their two hands.

It is presently beyond you, because you have no appreciation at all of the ancient Palo-Hebrew alphabet or of its numerological nor geometrical significance.
But the very strokes, the proportions, and the angles that are formed by the letters of the Name are an unbreakable and unchangeable mathematical/geometrical construction and statement.


The nations have became as blind men in their ignorance and in their conceits.

aa5874

What verse in gJohn does the author claimed he saw Jesus??

May I remind you that Jesus was the Logos, God the Creator, that walked on water, and resurrected in gJohn.

You don't even know when gJohn was composed and who wrote it. You have NOTHING but your imagination.

See Did Jesus Exist?? page 46-47--The Gospels are NOT eyewitness accounts.

2.What verse in 1 Corinthians does the author claimed he saw Jesus??

May I remind you that in Corinthians, Jesus was a revealed resurrected entity--.

3. 2 Peter is a forgery and does NOT belong in the Canon according to Church and its writer. See Church History 3.3.1

What???? You very well know that for HUNDREDS OF YEARS it has been documented in the Roman Empire that Jesus was born after his mother was PREGNANT by a Ghost, walked on water, transfigured, resurrected, and Ascended in a cloud.

You very well know that Christians claimed the Jewish Temple fell and Jerusalem was made desolate BECAUSE the Jews caused the death of or Killed Jesus, the Son of God.

Hippolytus' Treatise Against the Jews
What nonsense!!! Have you ever heard of the DSS?? Well, you better understand that NOTHING about Jesus, the disciples and Paul have been found in the DSS.

You must know that ALL ACTUAL DATED MANUSCRIPTS of the 1st century --ALL--do not mention Jesus, the disciples and Paul.

I expected NOTHING about Jesus, the disciples and Paul from the 1st century and before c 70 CE and that is EXACTLY, EXACTLY and PRECISELY what has happened.

Nothing has been found and Nothing will ever be found for Jesus the disciples and Paul from the 1st century.

Jesus, the disciples and Paul had NO real existence before c 70 CE.

TedM

aa, I encourage you to re-read my last post to you and think about what I wrote. You clearly did not do that the first time. Had you done so you would not have responded in such a nonsensical manner.

As to the the NT claims of seeing Jesus, I"m not going to tell you where they are. Anyone familiar with the NT writings would know where they are. You claimed ZERO witnesses to Jesus in the canon. I gave you FOUR. For all your claims of expertise here about the subject of a historical Jesus it is simply SHOCKING that you don't know those four claims. BTW you aren't allowed to remove 2Peter from the canon. It's there. You made a claim. If you can't stand by it--and you cannot--you need to make a retraction.

Sheshbazzar

:eating_popcorn:

aa5874

You have nothing to show or tell.

It is most mind-boggling that you don't understand that Jesus of the NT was the product of a Ghost.

Matthew 1:18 CEB--Common English Bible You seem to live in a World of Myth.

TedM has FOUR witnesses of Jesus of the NT.:constern01:

TedM has witnesses of the Son of a Ghost.

TedM

And so aa's ignorance marches on....

aa5874

This is exactly what I expected you to say. You have NOTHING to contribute to this thread.

Your baseless and illogical claim that Hosea 6.2 refers to 1 Cor. 15 has been exposed.

Iskander

Charlatans see prophecies everywhere. They remind me of a story I heard many years ago.
It goes something like that:

A young man (or student) is referred to a Psychologist because he associates anything with sexual activity.

The psychologist gives the young man a piece of paper on which he has drawn a square with a pencil and asks the student, what is this?

The student replies, fornicating people


The psychologist says that it is the drawing of a square, why did you say it is fornication?

The student replies that the drawing stands for a wall and that behind the wall there are men and women copulating.


Charlatans are like this student : they also know there is a prophecy behind the wall.

Chili

I wish I could sing in response to this . . . as the natural state of man is singing his song of life with a smile on his face.