Jobar

"Do you believe that "in something like five billion years...." the laws of mathematics and geometry will change or will cease to exist? "

Well, no; however, if you made that five trillion years, I'd have to say "I don't know." It appears that the properties of spacetime and matter/energy may have been produced during the first infinitesimal moments of the Big Bang, and it may be that those properties aren't eternal. We don't know yet, but investigations are ongoing.

I have said in other posts here that the only thing truly eternal is change. But when you try to talk about perpetual change, all hope of permanence is lost. No dancers, only the dance.

(You see, I, in my own way, am also a mystic. )

Sheshbazzar

I only used the phrase "five billion years" because it was the length of time that you introduced, actually the question would be as valid for the next five, fifty, or five hundred years, or any other reasonable time period.

So to put forth the question again, Do you believe that in the next five, fifty, or five hundred years, the established laws of mathematics or geometry will change or will cease to exist?

My goal is not to fiddle away in some obscure mystical philosophy, but to bring to the attention of other honest individuals certain immutable mathematical and geometrical information.
I have information to share, and a knowledge accumulated over decades, free to anyone who is willing to listen. I ask nothing in return. -Zerubabble-

Sheshbazzar

Though it is a minor detail, honesty compels me to correct the above, it should read "some 27 years ago"

Jobar

I *did* answer you, my previous post. "Well, no"- although more accurately I might say that my opinion is that they won't change significantly. I won't swear that some physicist or mathematician is not, at this moment, putting the finishing touches on some theory which will cause a vast upheaval in our understanding of numbers. My belief in the constancy of the laws of mathematics is not *faith* in that consistency.

Your point...?

Sheshbazzar

As I stated in post # 28 above,
I have no intention of presenting nor engaging in any form of "debate" about the absolutes of basic math and geometry.

In as much as these disciplines are NOT considered "absolutes" by you,
and you are attempting to engage a philosophical debate with the intent of invalidating the only laws of math and geometry known to mankind,
And that because apart from a common basis in the recognition and application of these well known laws and standards, the subject cannot even be rationally addressed,
I must discontinue this unprofitable discussion with you.

Jobar

Errr, okay. Pardon me while I don't go off and cry.

J-D

You mentioned a 'paradigm shift'. What do you mean by a 'paradigm shift'?

Sheshbazzar

A "new way of looking at things", or "a new perspective", "thinking outside of the box," the last referring to our propensity for getting "too comfortable" in our own limited little worlds.
Everyone of us develop our own personal "paradigms" or "frames of reference" based on our personal observations, experiences and the commonly "accepted ideas" and the ways of "normal thinking" which are an integral part of the societies in which we live.
Sometimes, when we encounter something that is so far 'outside' our common everyday experiences, [frame of reference] the easiest way to deal with it, is just to 'not see it', in the sense that acknowledging it would require a drastic change in our entire view of the possibilities, and of our "place" in the larger scheme of things, when this happens it is easier to just "blind" ourselves to that which would otherwise disrupt our "world view", and "mess with" that "comfort zone" that we each surround ourselves with.

Allow me to illustrate this with an example from the business world.
The Swiss had dominated the watch making industry for centuries, virtually controlling the entire market, when the first digital watch was invented it was displayed to the Swiss watch making industry, where it was essentially shrugged off as an inconsequental curiosity, As the prominent players in the market, they had absolutely no desire for any radical changes, and no interest in a "different" way of doing things, "mainsprings" and "17 jewels" were the order of the day, Thank you very much!
Figuratively, they slammed the door on the idea.
So the inventor took his idea to Japan, a country not "blinded" by the paradigms of the Swiss, and the Japanese developed large-scale production of miniaturized electronics, which ultimately led to their domination of the consumer electronics industry, and the home computer revolution.
Is your computer Swiss made? not likely, their 'blind-spot', blew their window opportunity.

So what has this to do with religion in the modern world? As has often been empathized in these Forums, religions, not just Christianity, have long used ignorance, and cultural conditioning as a way of controlling their adherents, But now we are in "The Information Age", and anyone with access to the Internet may be quickly educated to the point where the doctrines and teachings of their religion are first seriously questioned, then rejected, if not publicly, at least privately in their own minds, though many will continue to "go through the motions".
Then there will be those that see this information explosion as an opportunity to grow in knowledge, and in the understanding of the Scriptures.
Its been a mighty strange journey for me, When I accepted the Name of Yah back in the 70s and was immersed into the Name of The Messiah Yahshua,
most of my Christian co-workers seemed to have no knowledge at all of even the existence of any such Name, and it seemed that not one in ten thousand of them ever would, and I was often ridiculed for my non-conformity.
Now with the Internet I finding that there are thousands on-line writing these same names every day. (with varying degrees of respect of course)
So just what do these "Holy" names now mean to me, after all of this time, and my exposure to "higher criticism" on the Internet?
I would say first and foremost that they are an integral part of my own personal search for the truth, and to me also an integral part of that truth that I have found, (not that I can claim any personal credit for "discovering" the Saviours 'set-apart' (Holy) Name, for after all it was another man who had walked in that persuasion for a lifetime that opened my eyes.)

IF, and do I say, IF, you were to believe in the name of YAH in your heart,
to reverence His Holy Name above every other Name that is named,
and IF you were to believe that YAH exists, and is concerned with your welfare, then you would most certainly view the world around you far differently, even far more radically differently than any atheist views theism.
I speak here from a 'different' perspective, and except you stand where I stand you will not see the things I can see, because they remain outside of your line of sight, like a corner you cannot see around without moving from where you are at.