His Noodly Appendage

Given the extreme logical problems involved with the very concept of god, pretty much anything else at all does seem more likely.

But see, here's the thing. Imagine god came down and proved beyond every shadow of a doubt that he was the Author Of The Universe, Lord YHWH Himself. No matter how many tests I could think up, he passes them all.

Aside from the fact that it's probably technically unfalsifiable and thus unprovable, suppose that I am utterly and completely convinced that he's speaking the truth.

Would I be an atheist? No, I'd be a believer. By definition. If I believed that god existed in order that he could be standing in front of me, then I would believe that he existed. Duh.

Can you make the same claim? If (by whatever means) it were proved to you beyond any shadow of a doubt that god could not possibly exist, would you stop being a theist? Or is that just your core belief/assumption?

The 64-dollar question, though, is whether I would *worship* him.

Hell no. Worship a sadistic torturer with such a giant ego and such a teeny tiny little dick that he needs constant adulation and praise and grovelling for forgiveness for my entire life just to hold him back from torturing me? I don't think so.

Even if he were actually a nice guy... why would I worship him? So, he created the universe. Cool. I don't see how that makes me obliged to fall down awestruck and beg to lick his boots, or even to obey him. If he's a nice guy, I'll treat him like any other insanely powerful nice guy. Polite, friendly, and 'hey, nice job on the whole maths thing' .

And if he's not a nice guy, he can suck it. So, he sends me off to hell to have my skin slowly flayed off by flesh-eating bunnies for all eternity. Shame on him, I say. This is how he made me, this is what he gets. He wanted a different response, he should have made me differently.

A creature incapable of shame, so bent on petty revenge for a slight from a creature so infinitely below him... isn't going to like me anyway, so I may as well moon the bastard when I get the chance. It would piss him off, after all.

David B

What about people relying on the power of prayer to cure sick children with currently easily curable conditions? Denying children blood transusions out of religious belief? Performing dangerous exorcisms on children who are suffering from autism or some other real mental condition, or are just naughty? Sexual mutilation of children out of religious belief? Etc?

Yup, personal freedom is important, as is the freedom for a parent to be able to raise a child without undue interference from society or the state or whatever.

David B (sees a lot of potential argument about the 'undue')

David Vestal

He said he'd still be an atheist UNLESS it seemed that the creator was also a god. Several others have posted that given evidence of god, they would no longer be atheists, yet you seem bent on pretending that atheists would hold to their atheism despite anything. Why ask a question if you don't intend to believe the answers?

TySixtus

What utter rubbish.

Aside from painting with a gigantic brush, you're assuming that atheists deconvert due to "suffering" or "pain". While I'm sure that's true for some people, I'd wager that most of here became atheists by accident, whilst attempting to simply learn more about Christianity or other religions.

Read some threads in the lounge, and read some deconversion stories. Then come back to us with your "atheism is cause by suffering" thesis.

Ty

Rogernme

jbc: You mean a deist—yeah, I think so, especially since I was an atheist for the first 20 plus years of my life.

On the other hand, since there’s currently no science/evidence convincingly showing that we do indeed have freewill (even though we all, in our gut, are convinced that we do) maybe we really don’t have a choice about what we believe, or about anything.

There really is no actual science/evidence indicating that any thing and/or creature in this universe truly has freewill—undoubtedly there are many laws of nature that are deterministic, and perhaps there’s even true randomness (e.g., quantum level probabilities); but freewill? Choice? Let’s face it, there’s more science/evidence for a Creator.

Selsaral

Now you've proven you have absolutely no understanding of what atheism is.

I simply don't know where to start with your education, so I will leave it here and hope you eventually come to understand it.

Wads4

I've just been converted to Hinduism.

funinspace

:rolling: Care to expand that point a little? What I see is, at best, is allot of unaswered questions in our scientific knowledge that others fill with their <fill in the blank God>.

Johnny Skeptic

Now please, Cowboy Heretic, you miss the obvious. First of all, the followers of other relgions do not comprise the majority of the U.S. population and try to legistlate their religions like fundamentalist Christians often do. If Muslims comprised the majority of the U.S. population, I would be debating them instead of Christians. Second of all, the hatred you mentioned is directed at any being, real or mythical, who would commit the numerous acts of murder committed by the God of the Bible. Third of all, it would be uncompassionate for any god to refuse to clearly show himself to everyone. What in the world would be wrong with that?

Wads4

Yes of course, all those too, I was just too senile to remember them all.