Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-01-2005, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

Are you saying that what might at first glance be regarded as an error is in fact not an error, and just requires a different kind of interpretation?

I would say that the Bible is a book of both literal truth and allegory, each part should be properly understood as either.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPD

how relevant are the world views of the early church fathers now?

Given that the church fathers were closest in time to the original writers of the Christian Scriptures and lived in their culture, they would be a generally more reliable authority on Scriptural interpretation than 21th century Westerners.

Peace.

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-01-2005, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomboyMom

Of course, the only way that we would possibly even suspect that their was such a person as "Christ himself" is through the bible, so if the bible is suspect, so is the existence of Christ.

Early Historical Documents on Jesus Christ
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08375a.htm

Non-Christian writings
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori...stian_writings

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomboyMom

How do you decide which parts are crap and which aren't?

By following where the Spirit has led the Church.

Peace.

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-01-2005, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alkech

I mean in the OP you write the prelude of John which is basically the thoughts of Philo, whose works were inspired from Heraclitus.

In case you did not already know, "The Word of God" as a spiritual being is an element of the Old Testament. Furthermore, its paralell to the Greek philosophers demonstrates that Christianity is both the fulfillment of Judaism and paganism; something which the Apostle John implied in order to show the universality of Christ.

Peace.

Mageth · 12-01-2005, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orthodox_Freethinker

By following where the Spirit has led the Church.

Which Church? There are thousands of denominations, divisions, sects, cults, etc. of Christianity.

It appears that the "Church" has been quite "drunk on the spirit" for two millenia.

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-01-2005, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

Which Church? There are thousands of denominations, divisions, sects, cults, etc. of Christianity.

Historically, the Orthodox Church is the Church as founded by Christ and the Apostles. Any other church is only a tangent of Orthodoxy:

Any questions?

Peace.

Mageth · 12-01-2005, 10:37 AM

No questions. Thanks for the illustration of my point, though.

(You claim that the "Orthodox" Church, whatever that is, is being led by the Spirit. Note that every other branch on that graph would claim the same thing.)

Toto · 12-01-2005, 10:48 AM

How can you talk about how the Spirit has led the church? Is there any evidence of any real direction to the Orthodox Church, with its national divisions and its wretched history of collaboration with every vile political regime in Eastern Europe for the past half millenium?

Has the Spirit led the church to schisms? Has the Spirit led the church to liberal politics or conservative politics, to anti-communism or to collaboration with communism, or collaboration with fascism? To capitalism or socialism?

John A. Broussard · 12-01-2005, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

How can you talk about how the Spirit has led the church? Is there any evidence of any real direction to the Orthodox Church, with its national divisions and its wretched history of collaboration with every vile political regime in Eastern Europe for the past half millenium?

Has the Spirit led the church to schisms? Has the Spirit led the church to liberal politics or conservative politics, to anti-communism or to collaboration with communism, or collaboration with fascism? To capitalism or socialism?

I dunno. OF may have a point.

Any organization that has had such a wretched history, led by bigots and psychotics, and yet managed to survive this long must be favored by some divine being--one with a sense of humor if nothing else.

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-01-2005, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mageth

Note that every other branch on that graph would claim the same thing.)

But they could not historically trace their sect to Christ and the Apostles.

Peace.

Orthodox_Freethinker · 12-01-2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John A. Broussard

Any organization that has had such a wretched history, led by bigots and psychotics, and yet managed to survive this long must be favored by some divine being--one with a sense of humor if nothing else.

I don't believe that is a fair assessment of Orthodoxy. Perhaps you are thinking of the Roman Church.

Peace.

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12-01-2005, 10:37 AM	#16
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	No questions. Thanks for the illustration of my point, though. (You claim that the "Orthodox" Church, whatever that is, is being led by the Spirit. Note that every other branch on that graph would claim the same thing.)

12-01-2005, 10:48 AM	#17
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	How can you talk about how the Spirit has led the church? Is there any evidence of any real direction to the Orthodox Church, with its national divisions and its wretched history of collaboration with every vile political regime in Eastern Europe for the past half millenium? Has the Spirit led the church to schisms? Has the Spirit led the church to liberal politics or conservative politics, to anti-communism or to collaboration with communism, or collaboration with fascism? To capitalism or socialism?

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