Ecrasez L'infame

Eisenman also posits the Atomos / Simon Magus connection; Price has an interesting review of one of Eisenman's books which goes into some detail. Here's an algebraic paraphrase of the argument:

Simon Magus = Elymas = Atomos because they are all magicians with Cypriot connections
Elymas = Etomas from the Western text of Acts
Etomas = Atomus from the sound
Atomus = Josephus' Simon in various editions
Josephus' Simon = Simon Magus widely agreed.

Therefore, as Price says, "Simon Magus = Elymas = Etomas = Atomus = Josephus' Simon = Simon Magus." Shazam!

I read somewhere that the idea that Paul is Elymus goes back to Hilgenfeld... whoever he is.

Based on all this, I once drew up a table of characteristics and traits of Elymas, Simon M and Paul (in my original, I'd included "the Egyptian" who resembled Paul and led a riot on the Mt of Olives - but I've cut him from here). If anyone can find further connections, I'd love to hear them.

In my opinion, a load of bull; but still interesting.

the_cave

I would like to make the humble suggestion that "atomos" and "paulos" do not mean the same thing...

Toto

Please elaborate.

Amaleq13

That you don't know the difference between "insane" and "manic" and remain fixated on your personal belief in magic, suggests this discussion is not within your scope. :wave:

DCHindley

There isn't any direct connection between Samaritans and Magians.

In Greek, a Magos (MAGOS) was a *serious* magician, in the sense that he acually believed that he had the means (proper incantations, etc) to control the daimones (elemental spirits) that made things happen. This was a conscious imitation of the priests of Media (MHDIA), who were possibly Zorastrians in that period. However, the Greek concept of a Magos was what Greek and Roman oriented peoples thought Median priests were like. I am not aware of any actual Median priests who practiced magic in the Greek/Roman sphere (although I could be wrong).

A common street magician (a faker or imposter) was a Goes (GOHS).

In the 1C CE Jews, especially Egyptian Jews, and Samritans, were famous in the Greek and Roman world for having among them some *serious* magicians. Check out Morton Smith's Jesus the Magician (or via: amazon.co.uk) and The Greek Magical Papyri (or via: amazon.co.uk) edited by Hans Dieter Betz. Later Jewish lore as represented by some Talmud stories and the Toledoth Jeschu stories picked up on this to accuse Jesus of being one of these renegade Jewish magicians so "into" it that he sewed a papyrus with the four letter name of God written on it into a cut in his skin (in another tradition, he has it tattoed) so he wouldn't magically forget it like others who heard it pronounced while in Egypt.

The pseudo-Clementine literature gave Samaritans a Gnostic flavor, but as good as placed John the Baptist as well as Simon Magus square in their company. I always thought it weird that in the pseudo-Clementines wherever Simon Magus was, there was Peter, and they engaged in some pretty interesting magical duels, presumably one (Simon M) controlling evil daimones and one (Peter) controlling good ones. I long wondered wheher this was done to divert accusations that Simon Peter was an evil Magos by blaming the stories on a fabricated evil alter ego, Simon Magos.

Coooool.

DCH

the_cave

Well..."atom" means "indestructible/indivisible" (though, interestingly, it can also be read as "uncut"...) In English, of course, we think of an "atom" as a "small thing", simply because we don't speak Greek and don't pick up on the fact that a-tomos means "without division" or "uncut". But "small thing" was not the original meaning in Greek, and unless someone can demonstrate otherwise, I think it's fair to assume it continued to be the primary meaning of the word. "Paulos", on the other hand, means "small". Those are two very different concepts. If you were to argue that they mean the same thing, you would have to show, using textual evidence, that "atomos" by the time of Paul had come to mean "small/small thing", rather than "indivisible/indivisible thing".

Clouseau

maniac noun a lunatic or madman. Chambers 21st century Dictionary

As is well known, Americans believe in the powers of darkness. Maybe they get upset when they see someone apparently being healed. Maybe there is a correlation between wealth and mental health.

gurugeorge

Yes, although "Simon Magus" is his "bad twin" version in Acts, I doubt he was called that in real life in his own day. I think by that time sufficient time had passed for his nature as original founder and teacher of the sect to be mythologiseable - i.e. nobody would be any the wiser re. Acts' prestidigitation, the only remnant of him would have been parts of the letters.

The function of "Simon Magus" is to have somebody to "blame" for the existence of those recalcitrant Gnostics who declined the invitation to join the catholic Borg - yet the "bad" anti-founder couldn't be too different from Paul, had to be at least as magically impressive and charismatic as Paul (albeit with his power sourced in evil) and had to have a name similar enough to Paul's real name (Simon).

Not sure about any connection between Samaritan religion and Zoroastrianism. DCHindley's response to this is pretty good I think.

Chili

That is how the wolf nurses the lamb to maturity. Both see the question that already exists in the mind but your 'alter ego' has no access to it while Peter runs away with the treasure to behold In the end this is how the beauty of paradise is regained wherein our own mansion is so decorated.

Let me add that the confrontation escalates in Galilea where Paul's "race" is at or it would not be a fearful thing to fall in the hands of the living God. This kind of means that the race is real and we have only 42 months to get crucified and raised.

Chili

You should read Revelation 13 on this wherein the first beast is reborn from above and the second beast is reborn from below. Both are charismatic but the difference between these two is that the first beast gets crucified and will bear the stigmata while the second beast only has a vague image of this ideal. In here then, the second beast nurses the first beast to maturity inside Galilea of Judea that we call Purgatory in Christendom where the charismatic [now called] protestants nurse those 'reborn from above' to maturity.