Sheshbazzar

I myself was a tough nut to crack, hung around this forum for four long years defending the Bible's stories with ever increasingly contrived apologetics, but stiff necked though I was, little by little my conscience became more and more convinced that the cause that I was so valiantly defending was wrong, and a deception into which I had fallen.
I now thank spin, and Loomis, and all the others here for all that time, thought and effort that they spent trying to slap some sense into my silly deluded noggin.

The turning point for me was the reading of Farrell Till's "Yahweh's Failed Land Promise", he made an argument that I could in no way refute without resorting to the rejecting large portions of the Scriptures, I had no ethical choice left, but to concede a total defeat of my long cherished beliefs and hopes.

I became a quiet lurker for a considerable time as I dealt with my inner wrestling's, and decided how I was going to proceed.
I'm back now, a far happier, and more confident person than I have ever been in my life, serving the real Truth without any further need of compromising my conscience, or my mind.
And it feels so good!

ICinsideU

Just last night, I was thinking along the lines of this part of your original post.

To prove his existence, God could have appeared to everyone individually, had Jesus appear in hundreds of locations through out the ages, communicated telepathically to everyone, etc...
Instead, the story was spread just like you'd expect it to be if it was made up by humans.

God's could have prophesied the coming Roman emperors, the discovery of America, World War II, etc...
Instead, the biblical prophesies are vague, just like you'd expect if they were written by humans.

The bible could have detailed scientific truths, such as the age of the world, a heliocentric solar system, organic brain dysfunction as a cause of seizures, etc...
Instead, the science in the bible is just like you'd expect if it was written by bronze age humans.

God could have supernaturally preserved the original copies of each of the books of the bible, ensured each and every copy was absolutely perfect, caused errant copies to disintegrate, etc...
Instead there are thousands of textual variations and the oldest copies of most of the books are hundreds of years older than the originals, just like you'd expect they were cared for and copied by humans.

God could send Jesus back periodically to ensure his followers understand a unified teaching, he could have the Holy Spirit directly communicate with church leaders to ensure agreement, etc...
Instead we have dozens of denominations, just like you'd expect if the interpretation of the bible was left to humans.

God could have proof read his Word to ensure there was only one creation story (not 2 different ones), only one genealogy of Jesus (not 2 different ones), one resurrection story (not 4 different ones), etc...
Instead the bible looks like you'd expect it to look if it were written without supernatural involvement by several humans.

Without violating free will, an Omnibenevolent, omniscient, omnipotent God could eliminated infectious disease, prevent accidents, stop natural disasters, etc...
Instead, the world functions just like you'd expect if this God was a figment of the imagination of humans.

cgordon

HL, if you're sincere about finding some of these answers, there are plenty of resources, and plenty of folks here who've gone through similar situations.

Good luck in your quest!

cg

Donn10

Message to Johnny Skeptic,
Your post contains a lot of great insights and logical analysis but I don't think that the following insults and exaggerations will help Half-Life find the truth.
Just my opinion, feel free to ignore.

Allied35

You're like a broken record, over and over and over...... ad nauseam.

everettf

Half life: Keep in mind, everything you learned as christian, is strictly hearsay. It is what your religion wants you to believe.

Headache

Every journey, long or short, starts with a small step.
No matter where your journey may take you in life, you have at least opened your mind to questions, I can not ask for more!

I can not give you any advice on your journey since I've always been an atheist, other than you urge you to listen to those who has been down the same path.

One last word, don't be afraid to venture where your journey takes you, there is never a point of no return!

Half-Life

But, weren't all the prophecies written after the fact in the first century?

I just can not shake this one. Jesus said, "There will no stone left unturned on top of one another" and this is exactly what happened.

Romans burned down the temple and gold formed in the cracks of the temple and they took the stones one by one to remove the gold.

If this prophecy was false and the temple never was destroyed, wouldn't less people be Christians?

:huh:

Roger Pearse

Um, conversion, surely ... to **something**?

Um, no. I'm not sure where this 900 BC comes from. The idea that Genesis doesn't involve the whole board seems a bit odd to me; it does.

Whether Genesis should be understood as a book of science or a parable is something that was unclear in the synagogue in the time of Jesus, and consequently the Fathers also have differing views on it.

If you or I were trying to influence a race of mammals on an alien planet, we would start *somewhere*. There seems no special reason not to, anyway. Surely?

Is this merely appealing to some imaginary picture of how things 'must' work? If so, it is necessary to determine whether this picture is right, surely?

How many different places can one man be in, tho? If he was to be born as a man, he had to be born *somewhere*! So wherever he was born, this 'argument' could be levelled against it.

I'm unable to perceive the problem here.

As opposed to what?

At what period of history would he need to be born so that in 2000, 4000, or 6000 years a similar objection could not be raised, tho?

Again I can't see how this has any connection to whatever has gone before.

Again, why is this a problem?

To around 2bn people at the last count.

And you are how old? If you are fairly young, I presume that you were raised in a religious household, have gradually discovered that a lot of outsiders don't share these beliefs, and (from the lack of statement otherwise) have decided to conform to the larger group?

More than 2bn? It seems to me that it worked rather well.

I'm not sure that I understand the question. God existed before the bible did, surely?

All the best,

Roger Pearse

Doug Shaver

Yes, it makes sense to millions of people. They're called Christians.

But never mind them. If you're going to believe it yourself, it has to make sense to you. If you can't make sense of it, then you're not going to believe it.

People change their minds all the time about things they have believed all their lives, and not just religious beliefs. It's usually not much fun, but I've never known anyone who was sorry they did it.