Didymus

None. But most of the elements of the story(ies) can be traced to long before that, in Hebrew scripture, Greek mythology and philosophy, and in the Egyptian and Persian Mystery religions.

Didymus

Didymus

Thanks, Julian. Stark estimates 1000 Christians in 40 CE. That seems high to me, but regardless, if Paul's epistles present a complete picture of the christology of the time, those earliest Christians likely didn't think of Jesus as a man who had been executed only seven years before.

If Tacitus, writing in 95-105 CE, really meant that Christians were the ones blamed by Nero for the fire in 69 CE, the same caveat pertains. Nero's sources may have thought of Jesus as historical, but that doesn't mean that the alleged arsonists did.

Didymus

Julian

Hmmm, as far as I know, Tacitus wrote Annals in 115 and the fire in Rome was in 64.

Julian

Asha'man

There is also this:
Did Jesus Live 100 B.C.?

Zeichman

Can someone summarize the arguments in the 100 years before Christ so as to continue the discussion without me emptying my wallet or point me to a web site that does so? I get the impression that these types of arguments involve associating Jesus with that other dude from the Talmud and the Dead Sea Scrolls, neither of which is the least bit convincing.

Edit: crap- didn't realize that last one was a link to a site. my bad. Are there any writings that take recent scholarship account availible online?

Malachi151

Basically all of the Christian beliefs go way back, hundreds of years. Hero figures bascially identical to Jesus also go back hundreds of years.

The only thing in question is when did the specific "Jesus" myth arise.

New Testament Christianity is clearly a mix Egyptian, Zoroastrian, Greek, and Jewish religious beliefs.

It should also be noted that there about 3 or 4 different accounts of Jesus death.

The Jewish account of his death in the Torah says that he was stoned to death and hung in a tree.

The Greek account says he was hung from a pole.

The Roman account says that he was crucified on a cross.

There is also an account of his deaht in Acts in the NT that says that he was hung from a tree.

Secular Pinoy

IIRC, Ellegard posits that Jesus is the so-called Teacher of Righteousness that's referred to in the Dead Sea Scrolls. His main contention is that there is already a well-oiled Christian community in the 50s AD when Paul was was writing his letters. To him, this makes sense only if there was already an established proto-Christian community structure in the Jewish Diaspora that's receptive to the emerging Christ myth. He allies primitive Christianity with the Essenes.

Sorry if I misstated his position (a real possibility), I don't have the book in front of me right now.

Didymus

Okay. The point remains.

Didymus

Didymus

Shoot, what a screwed up post!

Let me try that second paragraph again, with appreciation to Julian:

If Tacitus, writing in 115 CE, really meant that Christians were the ones blamed by Nero for the fire in 64 CE, the same caveat pertains. TACITUS' sources may have thought of Jesus as historical, but that doesn't mean that the alleged arsonists did.

Didymus

jakejonesiv

The 70-75 CE date for GMark is based on the little apocalypse (Mark chapter 13) incorporating the the fall of Jerusalem to the Romans about 70 CE. Those that date GMark much before this must beg for Jesus to have real prophetic powers.

But 70-75 CE is just the earliest possible date. It could easily be later. Perhaps much later if Mark 13 reflects the Bar Kochba revolt.

I would estimate zero.

Jake Jones IV